tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post1049735288454700600..comments2024-02-15T03:32:25.686-05:00Comments on Preludium, Anglican and Episcopal futures: Now it is 100,000 defections to ACNA...The number just keeps reappearing.Mark Harrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-67733703184820701292009-02-24T08:40:00.000-05:002009-02-24T08:40:00.000-05:00Mark, I don't think you'll be surprised to know th...Mark, I don't think you'll be surprised to know that I'm one of those who believe the accurate and transparent record keeping and attendance / membership reporting is important, on both sides. I think you and I have exchanged comments on that topic and found we've agreed over the years.<BR/><BR/>Robroy already has covered much of what I would have wanted to mention. For Patsykay, however, let me add that if I recall the ACNA press release correctly, the 81,000+ ASA figure very carefully distinguishes between those parishes and portions of the 4 TEC dioceses that left and those who wish to remain in TEC. So, I am pretty certain that the 81,000 is not based on counting ALL of Pittsburgh or Fort Worth, etc., but only those portions of the diocese that have expressed their intent to realign.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07776057299013988717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-29046399483760457552009-02-23T15:24:00.000-05:002009-02-23T15:24:00.000-05:00Then there is the issue of Mr. Duncan and his fog ...Then there is the issue of Mr. Duncan and his fog machine, who claim that ALL of Pittsburgh has defected to the Southern Cone. How so? Because he claims that unless the parishes petition for release from his grip, they are by default members of the SC. Thus, he counts those in Pgh who are faithful to TEC (around 40% and growing) as having defected, but that is just foggy math.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-90879059393031442462009-02-23T08:22:00.000-05:002009-02-23T08:22:00.000-05:00I disagree, Observer, that one shouldn't talk abou...I disagree, Observer, that one shouldn't talk about membership and only focus on attendance. Membership has flaws to be sure, but I am not in the pews every Sunday but am a member in good standing. What should an acceptable attendance to membership ratio be? That ratio has been falling, now at 34.4% in 2007, down from 36.9% in 2001. This reflects that a lot of people have left, but their names are still on the membership list. <BR/><BR/>(For example, I was recently looking at Elizabeth Kaeton's parish and her ratio was under 20%, certainly a sign that the membership list has a lot of names needing to be culled.) <BR/><BR/>What irritates me is the TEC's fiction that it has 2.4 million members. See the reference on Episcopal Life Online, <A HREF="http://www.episcopalchurch.org/78650_8841_ENG_HTM.htm" REL="nofollow">here</A>. The TEC hasn't had 2.4 million on its books since 2004 and now stands at 2.28 million. But this is the information released to the press and there is little incentive to change it. For example, see recent newspaper articles <A HREF="http://articles.latimes.com/2008/dec/05/nation/na-episcopal5" REL="nofollow">here</A>, <A HREF="http://www.pe.com/localnews/religion/stories/PE_News_Local_S_episcopal06.3c23d14.html" REL="nofollow">here</A>, and <A HREF="http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/10/the_shrinking_episcopal_church.html" REL="nofollow">here</A> that all cite the 2.4 million business. (Just google "Episcopal 2.4 million" to find many more.)<BR/><BR/>And note that 2.4 million of 2004 reflects non-domestic dioceses which they only started adding to the tally in 2003. The domestic total hasn't seen 2.4 million in over 10 years. The non-domestic boost comes mainly from Haiti with over 100,000 members, supposedly. I was just over there on a medical mission, and I am skeptical about that number. But regardless, I am very concerned about the support for those Haitian parishes drying up. (I note that funding for the MDG's was cut out of the new budget and that the power for the missions to the Lakota tribe in South Dakota was cut and that the ministry has been taken over by a CANA priest.) How long can the TEC continue to support Haiti? Our parish just announced that the finances are in such disarray that the monies from the Haiti fundraiser won't be going to our sister parish in Haiti but rather will be going into the general fund.<BR/><BR/>Sorry about the long post, Mark+. One might be able to tell that I am a numbers geek. I know that Haiti is also close to your heart.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-31355762035190437742009-02-23T08:14:00.000-05:002009-02-23T08:14:00.000-05:00Tim writing--I'm sorry, but I couldn't help giggli...Tim writing--<BR/><BR/>I'm sorry, but I couldn't help giggling at the headline "100,000 Defect." Apart from its erroneous math, there's a grammatical reason not to use the term "defect."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-25043047837496831542009-02-23T02:32:00.000-05:002009-02-23T02:32:00.000-05:00Rounding up 80k to 100k is legitimate.....TEC regu...Rounding up 80k to 100k is legitimate.....TEC regularly gives the misleading info of it having 2m members....I don't see posts round here complaining about that given nothing like 2m people are at TEC churches on a Sunday .... it is very hard to round up 0.7m on a Sunday to 2m but perhaps the laws of round have been "revised" in TEC?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com