tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post116019284666639457..comments2024-02-15T03:32:25.686-05:00Comments on Preludium, Anglican and Episcopal futures: Things are Afoot: Moderator says, "hang together"Mark Harrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-1160442680228912822006-10-09T21:11:00.000-04:002006-10-09T21:11:00.000-04:00I think the LEAC Conference calls for more examina...I think the LEAC Conference calls for more examination. I noted that two active Episcopal Bishops, Ackerman of Quincy and Beckwith of Springfield, are among the faculty of that conference. I have an opinion on that on my own blog. Specifically, I think this may be more significant as a violation of ordination vows than a set of resolutions in San Joaquin's diocesan convention.<BR/><BR/>Phil, with respect, I don't know why we should expect the significant increase in the numbers of folks leaving the Episcopal Church to continue. It is true that over the past two to three years the numbers have gone up, and the current divisions probably have contributed. However, it remains to be seen whether that actually represents a majority of Episcopalians. At some point, and I believe soon, those folks who don't feel fed in the Episcopal Church will find their ways into other branches in the vineyard (still faithful Christians, but elsewhere), I think we will return to the relative stability of the previous decade. Yes, there was some decline; but that was more attributable to demographics and birth rates. Perhaps then we can all pursue our different visions of evangelism (yes, we do have one), and end up serving more souls than before.Marshall Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02807749717320495495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-1160424629078775192006-10-09T16:10:00.000-04:002006-10-09T16:10:00.000-04:00David,OK. But what you write is pretty much what ...David,<BR/><BR/>OK. But what you write is pretty much what ECUSA and its fellow-travelers have been saying about conservatives for quite some time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-1160413101272792892006-10-09T12:58:00.000-04:002006-10-09T12:58:00.000-04:00Come on Phil, it's incredibly rude and disrespectf...Come on Phil, it's incredibly rude and disrespectful to imply that the motives of this (imaginary "liberal conspiracy") group was to purposely <I>"collapse its catholicity and faithfulness."</I><BR/><BR/>It'd be like me deciding that, because you're a reasserter, that you're automatically a gay-bashing, misanthropic, right-wing nutjob who wants to destroy my church :)<BR/><BR/>Let's have a wee bit of respect for each other's faith, shall we ?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-1160331082037019992006-10-08T14:11:00.000-04:002006-10-08T14:11:00.000-04:00Richard III, my comment said nothing about the "ai...Richard III, my comment said nothing about the "aim" of the conservatives. Rather, it described what appears to be the reality of the situation as we find it.<BR/><BR/>As to why the conservatives don't leave, I suppose for the same reasons you didn't leave when you found a faithful Catholic church in, say, 1970, with which you clearly found great fault. Rather, you rolled up your sleeves and decided to collapse its catholicity and faithfulness. I guess we have an equal right to try to restore the situation to the status quo ante.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-1160315401006908542006-10-08T09:50:00.000-04:002006-10-08T09:50:00.000-04:00Bill,I tend to agree. I doubt that TEC will be out...Bill,<BR/>I tend to agree. I doubt that TEC will be outright expelled. AMiA or some other part of Elizabeth'<BR/>s alphabet soup may be welcomed in though, or some other price will be found for TEC to pay IMHO.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-1160271216504212132006-10-07T21:33:00.000-04:002006-10-07T21:33:00.000-04:00>>>I am unsure why such letters must start with sa...>>>I am unsure why such letters must start with salutations of high pomp.<BR/><BR/>One can only imagine what sort of grandiloquent titles Duncan will devise for himself once he is head of his own pseudoanglican sect meeting in garages and storefronts across the Pittsburgh metro area: Archbishop, Primate and Metropolitan of the Known and Unknown Worlds; Supreme Seer, Prophet, and Revelator; Defender of the Pure Fundamentalist Faith; Scourge of Buggers, & c.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-1160270607948546872006-10-07T21:23:00.000-04:002006-10-07T21:23:00.000-04:00persecuted orthodox Anglicans in the U.S.Yeah, tho...<I>persecuted orthodox Anglicans in the U.S.</I><BR/><BR/>Yeah, those slackers in Darfur have nothing on those poor, persecuted country clubbers in the US.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-1160266986354235942006-10-07T20:23:00.000-04:002006-10-07T20:23:00.000-04:00Obadiahslope,Not at all likely, but possible. Th...Obadiahslope,<BR/><BR/>Not at all likely, but possible. The anxiety about it drives some poor decision making, though. If you really thought God required something of you, would the ABC's opinion of your action matter a great deal?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-1160265904749515172006-10-07T20:05:00.000-04:002006-10-07T20:05:00.000-04:00The only thing harder to follow than the AAC, AiMA...The only thing harder to follow than the AAC, AiMA, Anglican Alphabet Soup of political maneuvering is the Foley Congressional Case. (Hmm . . . coincidence? I think not.) <BR/><BR/>Thank heavens for your cogent explaination. <BR/><BR/>The Baptismal waters have been stirred to a faretheewell.<BR/><BR/>All we who are the Episcopal Majority need do is to learn how to ride the wild surf.<BR/><BR/>For, this too shall pass.<BR/><BR/>And, all will be well.<BR/><BR/>In all manner of things, all will be well (Quote Dame Julian)Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-1160246006772475302006-10-07T14:33:00.000-04:002006-10-07T14:33:00.000-04:00Phil,Why don't the persecuted Orthodox Anglicans i...Phil,<BR/><BR/>Why don't the persecuted Orthodox Anglicans in the US just leave TEC, a group they clearly disagree with, and join up with a group like the Reformed Episcopal Church or maybe affiliate with one of the African churches. They could then be a part of a church that more closely mirrors who and what they claim to be and leave the rest of us liberals to continue on our road to perdition. The aim of those who want dual representation is to ultimately have TEC declared apostate with regard to the 'real anglicans' in the WWAC and be sent on our merry way as some sort of group of disgraced, un-repentant sinners who are only worthy of going to hell for our interest in being true to our interpretation of the Gospel of Christ. Or do I misread your comment?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-1160242607795550632006-10-07T13:36:00.000-04:002006-10-07T13:36:00.000-04:00Maybe something is afoot. If so, it isn't apparen...Maybe something is afoot. If so, it isn't apparent to anybody I know, and I've heard no inklings of it. We've just had a meeting of bishops both in and out of the Network that resulted in a public repudiation of ECUSA's actions and an endorsement of APO for those that feel they need it. And, we are likely, within the next half-year, to have a majority portion of the Communion (which has been proven influential with Canterbury without regard to your squabbling over signatures and numbers) demand and get dual representation of ECUSA among the Primates and a separate ecclesial structure for persecuted orthodox Anglicans in the U.S.<BR/><BR/>If that's a coming crisis for the Network, I'd like to see what things look like when it's doing well.<BR/><BR/>Considering an ECUSA commission in the past year or two told us we may be deciding how to turn out the institution's lights within the next few decades, you might want to direct your attention to crises closer to home.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-1160236002139914472006-10-07T11:46:00.000-04:002006-10-07T11:46:00.000-04:00"The Moderator is pulling out the “hang together o..."The Moderator is pulling out the “hang together or be hanged separately” language used by Ben Franklin at the signing of the Declaration of Independence. We know things are getting difficult when that word play is pulled."<BR/><BR/>Not quite, Mark. Bp. Duncan used this rhetoric in calm reflection looking back on three years of the Network's existence. There was no attempt to stir up false hysteria as you would like to suggest. There certainly was no mood of flippant, dismissive condescension, as characterized your "overview" -- which I noticed your readers who commented were only too ready to take at face value.<BR/><BR/>Speaking of hysteria, one of the bloggers made reference to the "marketing budget" behind the Network. This is straight out of the "right wing conspiracy" play book. Who needs to market when "moderates" keep opening their mouths in public?<BR/><BR/>Keep it coming, Mark.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-1160231784520967822006-10-07T10:36:00.000-04:002006-10-07T10:36:00.000-04:00Thanks for a great overview, Mark. It's getting ha...Thanks for a great overview, Mark. It's getting harder and harder to keep track of the players without a scorecard!SUSAN RUSSELLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01795717638621668638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-1160226016251032162006-10-07T09:00:00.000-04:002006-10-07T09:00:00.000-04:00Bill, you speak as if seperation from canterbury i...Bill, you speak as if seperation from canterbury is a likely outcome. Doi I read you correctly?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-1160222968958723612006-10-07T08:09:00.000-04:002006-10-07T08:09:00.000-04:00The vast majority of Episcopalians who were at all...The vast majority of Episcopalians who were at all interested in the Network have already joined. It's not like this particular schism doesn't have a marketing budget. The real threat to the Church's mission comes from moderate appeasers. The best way to move forward is to focus on living out the baptismal covenant and proclaiming the Good News of the Kingdom. Most Episcopalians will remain within the Episcopal Church. We have found Christ here and it remains our spiritual home. We are not a people who tolerate authoritarianism. We like to be free to think for ourselves and want to be part of a Church where ALL are welcome. The anxieties of some about being separated from Canterbury will subside when they get a clear picture of what a realigned Communion would look like. We want to be part of a Church with a baptismal ecclesiology. Meanwhile, the Network may well have to relearn the lessons of Anglican comprehensiveness just to hold its own house together. Hard to learn this lesson if you are defined by your opposition to it, though.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com