tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post1605450532091146221..comments2024-02-15T03:32:25.686-05:00Comments on Preludium, Anglican and Episcopal futures: Working an Election Site and Waiting for the ReturnsMark Harrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-68769984956168359672008-11-14T14:18:00.000-05:002008-11-14T14:18:00.000-05:00dah-veed noted:"I have never found MP to be racist...dah-veed noted:<BR/><BR/>"I have never found MP to be racist against me".<BR/><BR/>Your Latino experience is obviously not the universal center nor the only valid one. Apparently all of those African Americans and Latino Americans who crossed MP's vision of justice found little to commend him as a person, much more as a priest.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-18264228422639634922008-11-13T09:43:00.000-05:002008-11-13T09:43:00.000-05:00Mark,Please show me an example where Matt has been...Mark,<BR/><BR/>Please show me an example where Matt has been insulting or degrading towards gays etc. Liberals don't count- that's a partisan divide, not a disrepect towards an ethnic group etc.<BR/><BR/>David,<BR/><BR/>I stop by MP's blog (private, ha- on the Internet?) occasionally. You are deluded in thinking he didn't have personal anger towards blacks, Catholics, and others who voted against Prop 8.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-88308544193481203532008-11-13T00:09:00.000-05:002008-11-13T00:09:00.000-05:00And at the same time it is a diverse community of ...<I>And at the same time it is a diverse community of many Anglicans, but also other denominational Christians, and a scattering of non-Christians as well, who support and hold one another up in thoughts and prayers when adversity strikes our individual lives.</I><BR/><BR/>And, most importantly, humans, who make sometimes gross mistakes. <BR/><BR/>Your own measure will be meted out - which is a little clue for our friend from under the bridge.MarkBrunsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16971990948866488080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-47133904888743760372008-11-12T16:07:00.000-05:002008-11-12T16:07:00.000-05:00What this troll does not understand is that OCICBW...What this troll does not understand is that OCICBW.. was not viewed by Father Jonathan as a "public" blog, but a close knit community that was involved in many ongoing discussions. The posts using nigger were a very obvious continuation, to those of us who have been a part of that community, of previous posts regarding <I>Gays as the New Nigger</I>.<BR/><BR/>You may choose not to believe it, but Fr. J. does not personally believe anything that he was writing. He is not a racist or prejudiced man. He was being Devil's Advocate and taking to the rediculous extreme the thoughts and logic voiced by some members of our community regarding the outcome of the Calif. polls in other threads of the same time frame.<BR/><BR/>But only those of us who are regular members of that community, and read and participate in all of the posts and their threads, would know that.<BR/><BR/>And although coarse language is not an everyday part of the community's discussion, it is allowed, and folks do vent their feelings of frustration on a regular basis.<BR/><BR/>And at the same time it is a diverse community of many Anglicans, but also other denominational Christians, and a scattering of non-Christians as well, who support and hold one another up in thoughts and prayers when adversity strikes our individual lives.Brother Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333089314994730330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-21533390306454006902008-11-12T10:09:00.000-05:002008-11-12T10:09:00.000-05:00Mark, Considering his post was titled "f-word the ...Mark, <BR/><BR/>Considering his post was titled "f-word the n-word" (although he did not write it that way, he used the actual words), and that comment was an add-on implying don't just "f-word" the black people but also the Latinos etc....<BR/><BR/>I think I am not the one missing something here. It got him in hot water, deservedly. And I'm sure you'd call for Matt Kennedy's job if he wrote anything like that. But no one will be able to dig up Matt writing something like that, because he hasn't.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-87656125090550337852008-11-12T00:19:00.000-05:002008-11-12T00:19:00.000-05:00Here is what MP wrote before he deleted all his na...<I>Here is what MP wrote before he deleted all his nastiness: <BR/><BR/><B>Well not just black people but Latinos and poor people and poorly educated people and all the others who liberals spend so much effort trying to help without selling something like religion with their help. I suppose it’s one of those things. If people are struggling to survive they are hardly going to worry too much about thinking about other people’s ethical and moral questions. And if they don’t have a good education they are not going to have have good reasoning skills.</B></I><BR/><BR/><BR/>None of which particularly backs your claims, unless you're trying to claim that poor education and poverty are limited to certain races - which makes <I>you</I> the racist. Of course, this isn't surprising given your complaints of his "hate" and your delight in the idea that a man may be stripped of his livelihood and thrown into a position that will ultimately destroy him - unless, of course, you've <B>no</B> knowledge of the background he's been honest about.<BR/><BR/>I do have to ask if you are a practicing Christian, or, perhaps, a militant atheist?MarkBrunsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16971990948866488080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-17107438498899401002008-11-11T10:23:00.000-05:002008-11-11T10:23:00.000-05:00Well, David, if he's not racist against you, clear...Well, David, if he's not racist against you, clearly he's not racist against anyone! That's some logic.<BR/><BR/>Here is what MP wrote before he deleted all his nastiness: <BR/><BR/><I>Well not just black people but Latinos and poor people and poorly educated people and all the others who liberals spend so much effort trying to help without selling something like religion with their help. I suppose it’s one of those things. If people are struggling to survive they are hardly going to worry too much about thinking about other people’s ethical and moral questions. And if they don’t have a good education they are not going to have have good reasoning skills.</I>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-25211865429484256062008-11-11T09:16:00.000-05:002008-11-11T09:16:00.000-05:00No one is impressed by this sudden and self-servin...<I>No one is impressed by this sudden and self-serving concern for minorities you show...</I><BR/><BR/>Mark, that simply is not true. The reasserters themselves think it's quite the cleverest thing they've come up with! :-)<BR/><BR/><I>... as you are concerned only for those you like.</I><BR/><BR/>Not even that. They are concerned only for those segments of minority groups that further the reasserter agenda, AFAICT.The Religious Pícarohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03620636294081499041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-1222206708484290132008-11-10T23:48:00.001-05:002008-11-10T23:48:00.001-05:00I think I qualify as a Latino, and I have never fo...I think I qualify as a Latino, and I have never found MP to be racist against me.Brother Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333089314994730330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-26518472518288994972008-11-10T23:48:00.000-05:002008-11-10T23:48:00.000-05:00He has proven himself to be racist against blacks,...<I>He has proven himself to be racist against blacks, Latinos, and others, and anyone attempting to defend him at this point joins him in the hate-pile.</I><BR/><BR/>Along with all the Reasserter heroes like Akinola, Duncan, Iker. <I>You</I>, as well, so you've no moral high-ground to preach from.<BR/><BR/>No one is impressed by this sudden and self-serving concern for minorities you show, as you are concerned only for those you <I>like</I>. I understand that you want comfort and security and absolute control - but God doesn't allow that.MarkBrunsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16971990948866488080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-17863098411999094672008-11-10T09:12:00.000-05:002008-11-10T09:12:00.000-05:00Mark,I see you are still linking to MP, who appare...Mark,<BR/><BR/>I see you are still linking to MP, who apparently is in danger of losing his job, judging from recent postings. Good riddance, I hope it happens. If you saw Matt Kennedy using the language or writing the way he had, I imagine all of your commenters would be calling for his head. So I recommend you join the Episcopal Cafe and de-link MP. He has proven himself to be racist against blacks, Latinos, and others, and anyone attempting to defend him at this point joins him in the hate-pile.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-76868410221090999942008-11-09T20:19:00.000-05:002008-11-09T20:19:00.000-05:00Gay people as people and respectful citizens were ...<I>Gay people as people and respectful citizens were not the object of my "Molech's abomination" comment.</I><BR/><BR/>Seriously, thank you for clearing that up.<BR/><BR/><I>Near-naked and 99% naked demonstrations, lewd simulated sex acts, and insulting signs were. BTW: why aren't you bothered about that?</I><BR/><BR/>I thought that I had explained my position on that on the other thread. Pride Parades, as I understand it, are not monolithic. Some parts are as uneventful as a small-town Independence Day Parade; others, as you describe. I do find the latter parts problematic. I find them embarrassing. I think they are counter-productive, and even harmful (I can well imagine some gay fifteen year-old struggling with his sexuality out in the sticks, looking at some of the floats on TV or the net and thinking, "If that's what being gay is all about, I want nothing to do with it."). I do not go to Pride Parades. Even if I liked crowds, I would not go.The Religious Pícarohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03620636294081499041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-91418932257044622902008-11-09T13:29:00.000-05:002008-11-09T13:29:00.000-05:00Has Allen gotten his own blog yet?I hear that seve...Has Allen gotten his own blog yet?<BR/><BR/>I hear that several websites are giving them away for free.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-57629380179985156152008-11-09T01:03:00.000-05:002008-11-09T01:03:00.000-05:00If the Pro-8 side is so pro "education" about the ...If the Pro-8 side is so pro "education" about the issues, why did they resort to <B>outright lies</B>, and little else, for their campaign?<BR/><BR/>I've asked it before, and I'll ask it again: why is it that "Biblical" Christians (whether of Protestant, Catholic or Mormon flavors) feel like they can ignore "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor" with impunity?<BR/><BR/>To paraphrase the ol' lawyers saying: Pro-(H)8ters argued NEITHER the facts, NOR the law, they just pounded the table (while telling us their racket was choirs of angels singing!)<BR/><BR/>Lord have mercy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-30674173902361175732008-11-08T15:44:00.000-05:002008-11-08T15:44:00.000-05:00Oh, Alllllennnn! Yoo-hoo! Alllllennn! [Hello? Hell...Oh, Alllllennnn! Yoo-hoo! Alllllennn! [Hello? Hello? Is this thing on?] What about your own horrible comments about gay people?The Religious Pícarohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03620636294081499041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-65833905408161641002008-11-08T11:17:00.000-05:002008-11-08T11:17:00.000-05:00Mark,I don't concern myself about extremists that ...Mark,<BR/><BR/>I don't concern myself about extremists that I myself don't particularly admire: Virtue, etc. However, you showed admiration for Mad Priest on a regular basis and he certainly went way over the top before his "N.. In the Woodpile" comment. I believe that his "Two Minds Are Better Than None" made quite a few people's day on this blog. That's just the tame stuff.<BR/><BR/>You say that it is "rot" that there is a tinge of anger, bias, education-idolatry, superiority, and bigotry that gets a pass? Check out the fact that you still have MP's slap about "Two Minds..." posted with your apparent admiration. Can't just oppose the Republican candidiates...have to lower them and denigrate them as mindless. <BR/>OK. Got it. No further education needed.<BR/><BR/>Something of the same tact is happening by bishops Bruno and Mathes in California. They are calling the electorate to become more educated about GLBT issues...and implying that if they had been, then Prop. 8 would not have passed. Elitist vanity at its best: "I wish that those people would get a better education like me...then they'll agree with me". People DID educate themselves. They DID listen. They DIDN'T like what was happening and they changed it.They were right to vote for Mr. Obama...(clearly an educated move), but uneducated to pass Prop. 8? Got it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-62155069455271378712008-11-07T21:24:00.000-05:002008-11-07T21:24:00.000-05:00" If any conservative reappraiser had ever used la..." If any conservative reappraiser had ever used language or concepts like this he/she would have been abominated, jettisoned, lampooned, and excommunicated for all time."<BR/><BR/>Fr Harris mentioned David Virtue (sic). He might well have mentioned your posts, in which you referred to gay people as "Molech's abomination." I don't notice that you've been shunned by the likes of Phil et al.The Religious Pícarohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03620636294081499041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-23763648697554600132008-11-07T21:18:00.000-05:002008-11-07T21:18:00.000-05:00Allen...thanks. Went there and MP had removed all...Allen...thanks. Went there and MP had removed all reference, with the following note:<BR/><BR/>"As promised "The N Word Monologues" have been removed from the blog.<BR/><BR/>You will notice I have removed none of the offensive posts concerning Roman Catholic Proposition 8 voters. This is because only FranIAm complains about me stereotyping Roman Catholics and I can cope with Fran. She's a sweetie."<BR/><BR/>As to the major charactor flaw in MP: yes it is there.<BR/><BR/>As to your remark, "There ain't no way to clean this one up or to get such a sorry state off the hook. If any conservative reappraiser had ever used language or concepts like this he/she would have been abominated, jettisoned, lampooned, and excommunicated for all time." That's a crock. David Virtue has on repeated occasions used language and concepts concerning Gay and Lesbian persons, some named individually, that are similarly outrageous and, behold, he lives.<BR/><BR/>I will confess that I did not read MP's offending article, having found the title offensive enough to move on.<BR/><BR/>As to your final remark: "Why the understanding pass for what is clearly a major character flaw? Oh, I forgot. When in the hands of a liberal, anger, bias, education-idolatry, superiority, and bigotry are tolerable." Rot.Mark Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-44029574219959511492008-11-07T21:17:00.000-05:002008-11-07T21:17:00.000-05:00Allen, you're always a day late and a dollar short...Allen, you're always a day late and a dollar short. After much discussion/debate between Mad Priest and regular commenters on his blog, he removed the offending posts. And yes, regular posters and readers of his blog were upset by his use of the word "nigger."The Religious Pícarohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03620636294081499041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-85662993056545941902008-11-07T17:30:00.000-05:002008-11-07T17:30:00.000-05:00Uriel,If the electorate had put Brown v. Board of ...Uriel,<BR/>If the electorate had put Brown v. Board of Education or Loving to the popular vote, and enshrined racism, I very much doubt we would have a <I>President-elect </I>Obama. That was my poorly expressed point.<BR/><BR/>ITAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-13968241063540586992008-11-07T14:33:00.000-05:002008-11-07T14:33:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Fred Preusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06438368833909384043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-11165952746524559372008-11-07T09:27:00.000-05:002008-11-07T09:27:00.000-05:00Mark,http://revjph.blogspot.com/Look for MP's post...Mark,<BR/><BR/>http://revjph.blogspot.com/<BR/><BR/>Look for MP's posting under the<BR/>"N***ger in the Woodpile".<BR/><BR/>There ain't no way to clean this one up or to get such a sorry state off the hook. If any conservative reappraiser had ever used language or concepts like this he/she would have been abominated, jettisoned, lampooned, and excommunicated for all time.<BR/><BR/>Why the understanding pass for what is clearly a major character flaw? Oh, I forgot. When in the hands of a liberal, anger, bias, education-idolatry, superiority, and bigotry are tolerable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-70440121510077632162008-11-07T07:58:00.000-05:002008-11-07T07:58:00.000-05:00allen...where is the citation? And if true, it is ...allen...where is the citation? And if true, it is MP raising a question that comes up off and on...that the same justice ideals that have moved the US from slave holding to being radically segregated to being separate in church and society to having a President who is African American, have not been seen by them as applicable to gay and lesbian people seeking the end of discrimination.<BR/><BR/>There is a disjunction and we know it. But the cause I believe lies with our continued inability to make Sunday Morning and Monday Morning (the Church and the Society) part of the same whole.<BR/><BR/>We are not talking on Sunday, what makes you think we will be able to talk on Monday?Mark Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-51870395931465911512008-11-07T02:11:00.000-05:002008-11-07T02:11:00.000-05:00It - just an addendum - Barack Obama exists in spi...It - just an addendum - Barack Obama exists in spite of miscegenation laws - that is, his parents met and married in Hawaii, where there were no such laws, and where Barack was born in 1961; but such laws existed in other states, including Virginia, where it did not end until 1967.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-56728320783444767212008-11-07T01:12:00.000-05:002008-11-07T01:12:00.000-05:00I find it interesting that the people who moaned, ...<B>I</B> find it interesting that the people who moaned, protested, backbit, and railed at the democratic election of Gene Robinson, doing everything they could to undo that election, would be offended at people doing the same in a secular election.<BR/><BR/>We were told by Reasserters that, regardless of the people of New Hampshire's speaking, their attempts to undo the election were part of the democratic process.<BR/><BR/>Goose meet gander.MarkBrunsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16971990948866488080noreply@blogger.com