tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post1898982380100994532..comments2024-02-15T03:32:25.686-05:00Comments on Preludium, Anglican and Episcopal futures: A modest proposal concerning the Preamble to the Constitution of The Episcopal ChurchMark Harrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-56511123166929933792014-03-18T09:53:36.204-04:002014-03-18T09:53:36.204-04:00My simple point is that if you undertake the chang...My simple point is that if you undertake the changes in the C/C Preamble, the Episcopal Diocese of SC will look far more like the present TEC than an altered one you are proposing. That is patent. What you strike out and alter -- that is precisely the TEC many of us what to preserve and retain. SCMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-20436648764272376162014-03-17T23:38:49.301-04:002014-03-17T23:38:49.301-04:00SCM... no they didn'tSCM... no they didn'tMark Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-68966933160822478712014-03-17T09:01:59.453-04:002014-03-17T09:01:59.453-04:00The Episcopal Diocese of SC has just voted fully i...The Episcopal Diocese of SC has just voted fully in the spirit of the present TEC C/C Preamble. SCMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-87613733996428035682014-03-13T17:36:14.245-04:002014-03-13T17:36:14.245-04:00The point is that many in TEC will happily retain ...The point is that many in TEC will happily retain the present preamble as consistent with and encouraging of the vision of Anglicanism in the US. So if the status quo is thrown out, then that will signal discontinuity with the present understanding. That is what is so clarifying about your proposal. It honestly casts aside a Communion understanding many of us will gladly retain.<br /><br />SCMSCMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-16395549549589306582014-03-13T17:23:19.125-04:002014-03-13T17:23:19.125-04:00SCM....(i) I doubt Convention will adopt this sort...SCM....(i) I doubt Convention will adopt this sort of proposal, (ii) the proposal does not change anything (although voices on the left and right think so), so there is no "new TEC being inaugurated" and (iv) whatever is meant by remaining "where this church as been for several hundred years" it has nothing to do with the current or proposed Preamble. The Preamble in its current form came in in the 1960's.Mark Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-21335565895492070962014-03-12T17:20:26.478-04:002014-03-12T17:20:26.478-04:00When TEC adopts this new preamble, then it will si...When TEC adopts this new preamble, then it will signal its discontinuity with what a former preamble held to be so. <br /><br />Will other constitutional changes not also need to come into force to accommodate the new TEC being inaugurated?<br /><br />Those prefer the status quo can then seek to determine whether and how they may remain where this church has been for several hundred years.SCMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-26786870804410343172014-03-12T09:30:19.671-04:002014-03-12T09:30:19.671-04:00Thank you, Mark, for raising concern about the Pre...Thank you, Mark, for raising concern about the Preamble. I am concerned that TREC is focusing on newly raised issues and ignoring other, perhaps more important matters, of less recent vintage.<br /><br />I have written a good deal about maintaining the unity of the church from the perspective of someone in a diocese that experienced schism at the hands of militant traditionalists such as Bob Duncan. As long as we are trying to fix things in The Episcopal Church, we need to try to inoculate ourselves against the likes of Bob Duncan, Mark Lawrence, etc.<br /><br />As for the Preamble, I am inclined to think that shorter is better. I urge readers to consider my essay of May 6, 2010, “<a href="http://blog.deimel.org/2010/05/preamble-proposal.html" rel="nofollow">A Preamble Proposal</a>,” as well as my essay of December 14, 2011, “<a href="http://blog.deimel.org/2011/12/changes-needed-in-constitution-and.html" rel="nofollow">Changes Needed in the Constitution and Canons of The Episcopal Church</a>.”<br /><br />TREC will have failed the church if it does not address some of the concerns I have raised in these posts.Lionel Deimelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08363018512775944659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-62310018962020944332014-03-11T16:57:59.090-04:002014-03-11T16:57:59.090-04:00I like it. May the GC make it so.I like it. May the GC make it so.Deacon Charlie Perrinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02865504124912476964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-54421405316832311062014-03-11T12:45:41.871-04:002014-03-11T12:45:41.871-04:00SECONDED.
DevonSECONDED. <br /><br />DevonDevon Miller-Duggannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-14287885224526170502014-03-11T09:37:40.082-04:002014-03-11T09:37:40.082-04:00Amen Amen Leonardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16667415590825321701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-30973929200732504322014-03-11T09:01:00.038-04:002014-03-11T09:01:00.038-04:00This is a good idea. A frank acknowledgment that T...This is a good idea. A frank acknowledgment that TEC is no longer what it once purported to be. The changes will clarify this. <br /><br />SCMSCMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-59627053025749138282014-03-11T08:57:41.031-04:002014-03-11T08:57:41.031-04:00Two thoughts: 1)There is nothing "modest"...Two thoughts: 1)There is nothing "modest" about this proposal, and 2) things evolve. That's not necessarily a bad thing.Bishop Daniel Martinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18341528414941408086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-82404892209423299602014-03-11T00:04:25.122-04:002014-03-11T00:04:25.122-04:00The way I read this, we are severing ties with the...The way I read this, we are severing ties with the rest of the Anglican Communion. Is that the intent? If so, why? And why do precisely what those who "enforced" the Lambeth 1998 resolution most want us to do?Tom Sramek, Jr.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17891982131922786298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-87777002659597353002014-03-10T22:11:43.292-04:002014-03-10T22:11:43.292-04:00Great start Padre Mark.
I have a little problem w...Great start Padre Mark.<br /><br />I have a little problem with the phrase “this Church” at the end of the first paragraph, as that same phrase has been miscontrued in the past to be referring to the Anglican Communion. Perhaps it needs to be spelled out more concisely in some way that it is the Protestant Episcopal Church of the United States to which this refers.Brother Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333089314994730330noreply@blogger.com