tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post2175006283256537567..comments2024-02-15T03:32:25.686-05:00Comments on Preludium, Anglican and Episcopal futures: Simons on the State of the Church in PittsburghMark Harrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-78358497301230981572008-12-17T08:20:00.000-05:002008-12-17T08:20:00.000-05:00I don't think Simons meant it this way, but this i...I don't think Simons meant it this way, but this is what this message will ultimately mean for those conservatives in Pittsburgh who chose to remain in TEC:<BR/><BR/>"Please don't throw stones at us. This distracts us from throwing much larger and nastier stones at your friends and relatives in court. By the way, we expect you to help pay for those larger, nastier stones. What do you mean, you don't like that? No stone throwing, now."<BR/><BR/>You cannot pretend that the accusations in court are somehow different and exempt, if you expect this to stop.RBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16752701681681717163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-15167550682362556622008-12-17T05:44:00.000-05:002008-12-17T05:44:00.000-05:00"Our old culture would now start to throw stones. ..."Our old culture would now start to throw stones. It would “Google” the Bishop’s name and begin to collect writings and voting records, it would be mistrustful and suspicious. It would dwell on the deficits and not the benefits. Perhaps some from whom we are separated will do this."<BR/><BR/>Well, I did look at Louie Crew's site and the new bishop has a near perfect pro-homosexual voting record. The only exception was that he voted for Bp Frey's resolution in the early 90's requesting that Episcopal clergy avoid sexual relations outside of marriage. (This was amazingly defeated.) <BR/><BR/>It is fairly clear to me that Simons+ is opposed to lawsuits which is a colossal boulder to be lobbed at the other side. I wonder if he will publicly and unequivocally repudiate them. If he truly wants to irenically "rebuild the temple" engaging in major litigation wars isn't the way to do this. <BR/>---<BR/>Glory to God in the highest, <BR/>And on earth peace among men with whom He is pleased.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-44580206144924642152008-12-16T14:58:00.000-05:002008-12-16T14:58:00.000-05:00JCF: That's what I have been saying for years.Bio...JCF: That's what I have been saying for years.<BR/><BR/>Biologists, though....as a sense of wonder at the diversity of life would appear to be required for the job.<BR/><BR/>ITAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-22177980344722441902008-12-16T14:55:00.000-05:002008-12-16T14:55:00.000-05:00As people have saida strong wonderful sermonNow wi...As people have said<BR/>a strong wonderful sermon<BR/><BR/>Now with the announcement of a parallel province<BR/>comes a whole (new) parallel Anglican Communion!<BR/>See:<BR/>http://www.liturgy.co.nz/blog/true-anglican-communion/246<BR/><BR/>Advent blessingsliturgyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11822769747947139669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-21031633937339334922008-12-15T22:22:00.000-05:002008-12-15T22:22:00.000-05:00Yertle the Turtle? Sigh, reductio ad Hitlerum.Sure...Yertle the Turtle? Sigh, <I>reductio ad Hitlerum.</I><BR/><BR/>Surely Simons+ is admonishing both sides of the aisle to avoid casting stones.Lynnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09748809418423591030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-27133933704028074182008-12-15T15:16:00.000-05:002008-12-15T15:16:00.000-05:00Anyone who kicks at those who are forming another ...Anyone who kicks at those who are forming another Province had better be able to stand solidly on their one foot left on the ground. <BR/><BR/>The claims of moral high ground and viability are awaiting the evidence to come in from the larger TEC and the newly reconstituted Diocese of Pittsburgh.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-4036402548664881732008-12-15T12:14:00.000-05:002008-12-15T12:14:00.000-05:00Yertle the Turtle?I don't see the slightest resemb...Yertle the Turtle?<BR/><BR/>I don't see the slightest resemblance.<BR/><BR/>Now Woodsy the Owl, on the other hand....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-10792592227370351162008-12-15T10:43:00.000-05:002008-12-15T10:43:00.000-05:00Overall, I thought this was a wonderful, powerful ...Overall, I thought this was a wonderful, powerful sermon/address. Yet toward the end I found one major stumbling block, which perhaps would be classified by Dr. Simons as "throwing a stone," yet which strikes me as absolutely warranted given the history.<BR/><BR/>Dr. Simons admonishes his audience that: "We need to not do that. Rather, we need to trust that those who have been raised up to leadership have everyone’s best interest in mind and that this is not just a human answer to a situation but a godly one as well."<BR/><BR/>This is a highly ironic sentiment, inasmuch as, until recently, it is the former Bishop Bob who was in a position to say such a thing, and who indeed *did* in effect say such -- and that's precisely the road that led to the schism he led.<BR/><BR/>Christians should never be asked, in effect, to check their brains at the door -- to "just trust me, just trust your leaders," unless the "me" speaking is Jesus Christ Himself. Childlike trust in leaders has far too often, in both the religious and the political world, led to abuse and deception.<BR/><BR/>With all due respect to Dr. Simons and to the otherwise powerful points he made, one can still require trust to be earned, and maintain one's intelligence and vigilance, while nonetheless refraining from "stone throwing."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-56102676055352695512008-12-15T09:22:00.000-05:002008-12-15T09:22:00.000-05:00Well, without throwing stones, of course the first...Well, without throwing stones, of course the first thing I did was Google Bishop Robert H. Johnson. The only thing I really found was that, of course, TEC's opponents (T19 specifically) had already done so to their satisfaction. They are, in fact, right over there to say that it is unfair to say "trust us, and don't Google our guy." I assume that lots of people, separators and remainers. have done so.<BR/><BR/>According to commenters there, Johnson is a "flaming liberal." Imagine that. If true, I am on the same side of the issues as the (assisting) bishop of a diocese of my church, and I don't have to defend it. That's a pleasant change.<BR/><BR/>I do hope that the remaining Diocese of Pittsburgh re-builds and goes from strength to strength. There is nothing wrong with having appointed a bishop on the TEC side of the issues which have divided us, and no reason we shouldn't know.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-87239173825477901722008-12-15T08:50:00.000-05:002008-12-15T08:50:00.000-05:00The image that comes to my mind with the language ...The image that comes to my mind with the language of 'throwing stones' is that this re-forming diocese of TEC is caught between a rock and a hard place. <BR/><BR/>I think they need to set standards and goals, but they may find themselves in need of a strong defense which may include a law suit or two. <BR/><BR/>They don't need our judgment. They've had too many years of being told who they are, what they should believe and how they should act. <BR/><BR/>What they need is to be lifted continually in prayer.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-42608357053896103872008-12-15T03:13:00.000-05:002008-12-15T03:13:00.000-05:00I fear that the reasserters here have misread the ...I fear that the reasserters here have misread the good father's sermon. His encouragement to lay down the stones was specifically directed at those in attendance about throwing stones at one another. As the former bishop of this continuing diocese undoubtedly stirred many harsh feelings amongst those who now choose to remain with the Episcopal Church.<BR/><BR/>However, I am also sure that the <B>reorganized, but continuing</B> Diocese of Pittsburgh has every intention of reclaiming their rightful patrimony from those who departed with buildings and funds to constitute a diocese in a new denomination.Brother Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333089314994730330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-63724904662939668652008-12-14T22:38:00.000-05:002008-12-14T22:38:00.000-05:00David Wilson+,You have to admit, Jim Simons+ Yurtl...David Wilson+,<BR/><BR/>You have to admit, Jim Simons+ Yurtle and lemmings are pretty funny. Much better than the "apostate" and "heretic" that the other side throws around here in Pittsburgh.<BR/><BR/>I am a member of St. Paul's Episcopal in Mt. Lebanon, PA and many of our members have very recently received postcards from nearby St. David's Parish refering to Episcopalians with just those words.<BR/><BR/>Isn't it ironic that the Priest-in-charge at St. David's is also named David Wilson+.<BR/><BR/>That David Wilson+ was until this spring the Rector of St. Paul's, Kittanning, PA. I truly enjoyed meeting their interim Rector and lay deputies at Saturday's reorganizing convention. They have decided not to realign. <BR/><BR/>Oh, the irony. That (the St. David's) David Wilson+ is also the President of the standing committee of the group that left for the Southern Cone. I hope he works his same magic at St. David's.<BR/><BR/>I'm sure there are two David Wilsons+, right?<BR/><BR/>Andy MuhlAndy Muhlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09438527060443509986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-90542239412562060132008-12-14T22:01:00.000-05:002008-12-14T22:01:00.000-05:00To Bob of Fremont and RB, there is a simple way to...To Bob of Fremont and RB, there is a simple way to end the lawsuits: don't steal the property on your way to Argentina.Padre Mickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07580459577853346369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-87333050043882717662008-12-14T21:02:00.000-05:002008-12-14T21:02:00.000-05:00The former Bishop of the Diocese could learn a few...The former Bishop of the Diocese could learn a few things from this priest who once served under him as well as the rest who followed him.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-45190036913903450552008-12-14T19:20:00.000-05:002008-12-14T19:20:00.000-05:00Amen,An awesome sermon.Amen,<BR/><BR/>An awesome sermon.Gracehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17018475588969974790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-49191256543305105032008-12-14T19:07:00.001-05:002008-12-14T19:07:00.001-05:00That was really great! A wonderful pastoral sermon...That was really great! A wonderful pastoral sermon--I hope many in Pittsburgh, besides the delegates to this convention, get to read and hear it.it's margarethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13577280471100732619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-88283538479571282712008-12-14T17:30:00.000-05:002008-12-14T17:30:00.000-05:00I was moved, until I learned that the new Diocese ...I <B>was</B> moved, until I learned that the new Diocese of Pittsburgh plans to spend a third of next year's budget on lawsuits. So, despite whatever sentiments have been expressed here, they in fact are planning to throw lots of stones. And they really had me going for a moment. I'm sure Simons+ is sincere enough. But the new diocese has other things in mind.RBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16752701681681717163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-27640293613743462502008-12-14T16:36:00.000-05:002008-12-14T16:36:00.000-05:00When I came to the Diocese of Pittsburgh in 1976 i...When I came to the Diocese of Pittsburgh in 1976 it was marked by the gracious and inclusive ministry of Bishop Robert Appleyard. I am heartened by Jim Simons' gracious message to the continuing Diocese of Pittsburgh. God bless them in the work ahead.<BR/><BR/>Jim Von DreeleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-33132998978918444492008-12-14T16:28:00.000-05:002008-12-14T16:28:00.000-05:00A splendid sermon.I especially liked the part abou...A splendid sermon.<BR/>I especially liked the part about incarnational witness, and the example of the early Christians in plague-ridden Alexandria. I believe that this standard -- a much harder and more demanding standard -- is the one by which we shall all be measured in the end. The test will be how much we can be Christ to each other, and especially to those outside the fellowship; not whether we can correctly answer a true-false pop quiz on points of doctrine.<BR/><BR/>I also liked the ecology analogy.Counterlighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14345956180434795401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-56495769719279449942008-12-14T16:25:00.000-05:002008-12-14T16:25:00.000-05:00For Jim, is it now back to throwing stones at Bish...For Jim, is it now back to throwing stones at Bishop Duncan calling him Yertle the Turtle and calling his former colleagues a bunch of lemmings?The Rev Canon Dr David Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09878281384587956210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-34704979651122010252008-12-14T15:44:00.000-05:002008-12-14T15:44:00.000-05:00I am glad to hear that both sides will now move on...I am glad to hear that both sides will now move on without further lawsuits or recriminations.<BR/><BR/>This is a wonderful witness and I am pleased for both sides of this.<BR/><BR/>Leaving behind the lawsuits and recriminations is the best way for both sides to move ahead.<BR/><BR/>Dr. Simons is right on.<BR/><BR/>Bob of FremontAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-45835494897990076592008-12-14T14:57:00.000-05:002008-12-14T14:57:00.000-05:00Indeed, it is a fine sermon, one from which we may...Indeed, it is a fine sermon, one from which we may all learn.<BR/><BR/>May God bless the Episcopal Diocese of Pittsburgh.June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-91329891794338006212008-12-14T13:37:00.000-05:002008-12-14T13:37:00.000-05:00Very moving. Thank you for posting this.Very moving. Thank you for posting this.RBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16752701681681717163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-42503639214205107112008-12-14T02:24:00.000-05:002008-12-14T02:24:00.000-05:00May the Lord bless them in their endeavors!May the Lord bless them in their endeavors!Brother Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333089314994730330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-24157357283272020772008-12-14T00:35:00.000-05:002008-12-14T00:35:00.000-05:00What a wonderful sermon.I couldn't help but notice...What a wonderful sermon.<BR/><BR/>I couldn't help but notice Dr. Simons' background: "undergraduate degree is in stream and lake ecology" (and his helpful analogy about a healthy environment nurturing diversity). Which in turn, made me think of the PB, and <I>her</I> academic background (marine biology).<BR/><BR/>Perhaps at this time, when so many of us are throwing too much blah-blah-blah (much like Simons' stones!) at each other, we need the down-to-earth (or sea) common sense of <B>scientists</B> to cut through the BS---to the actual life (zoology) of the Church?<BR/><BR/>My 2c.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com