tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post3227056155706067341..comments2024-02-15T03:32:25.686-05:00Comments on Preludium, Anglican and Episcopal futures: Time to Retire the Nomenclature of Churches as Provinces.Mark Harrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-18909895190569185652008-08-07T18:32:00.000-04:002008-08-07T18:32:00.000-04:00Mark, I think you are exactly right, but I agree w...Mark, I think you are exactly right, but I agree with David... <B>PLEASE</B> do not use "autocephalous".<BR/><BR/>Part of the problem with language, especially in the church, is that the majority of the time one is talking above people... which is the cause of that repeated echo, BTW.Canyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14737285360280766111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-22100519843365069312008-08-05T01:21:00.000-04:002008-08-05T01:21:00.000-04:00Autocephalous, it makes sense to those of us with ...<I>Autocephalous</I>, it makes sense to those of us with Latin-based mother tongues, but I am sure most folks would think it a disease.<BR/><BR/>How about independent, self-governing national and regional churches?Brother Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333089314994730330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-40922940589688444312008-08-04T12:06:00.000-04:002008-08-04T12:06:00.000-04:00I agree with nom de plume and Marshall that "autoc...I agree with nom de plume and Marshall that "autocephalous" well describes what we are as TEC. But the rest of the country still hasn't figured out what "Episcopal" means -- let's not throw them an even more obscure Greek term!<BR/><BR/>But you're quite right, Mark, that the equivocity of "Province" has caught up with us. The TEC has nine provices (which we number rather than name, which is boring). The CofE has two. The Church of Ireland has two. The Anglican Church of Canada, has four, as does the Anglican Church of Australia (plus one extraprovincial diocese). The Church of Nigeria (Anglican Communion) (ho ho ho) has ten, plus a "mission" group that includes CANA. The "other" use of the term "Province" seems to have originated as the English missions in Africa became independent and self-governing (e.g. the Province of South Africa, the Province of West Africa, the Province of East Africa -- which subsequently divided into groupings that were often more nationally specific).<BR/><BR/>So, yes -- a "province" (ecclesiastical) is a subdivision of a Church (among Anglicans usually though not always a national church). National churches are (usually) just that -- national churches, or at least regional churches. Example: "The Church of the Province of Southern Africa" is now (or will be shortly) "The Anglican Church of Southern Africa." Let's use that as a model throughout the Communion.<BR/><BR/>If there still is a Communion by next week....WSJMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09712152737422347034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-33073934089703413692008-08-04T11:31:00.000-04:002008-08-04T11:31:00.000-04:00Norman Doe's original definition of "autonomy" in ...Norman Doe's original definition of "autonomy" in <I>Communion and Autonomy in Anglicanism: Nature and Maintenance</I> (prepared for the Eames Commission) specifically <I>contrasted</I> it with "autocephaly" (to the amazement of many English speakers on this side of the Atlantic): cf. page 25, and footnote 252. All the more reason for using the Orthodox term, in my opinion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-9810525685931964982008-08-04T10:57:00.000-04:002008-08-04T10:57:00.000-04:00Should we perhaps consider "autocephalous" at this...Should we perhaps consider "autocephalous" at this point? It is a word more rooted in ecclesiology and in the tradition of the whole Church, without relinquishing any autonomy.Marshall Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02807749717320495495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-42310266530722261732008-08-04T09:03:00.000-04:002008-08-04T09:03:00.000-04:00Er, how about using the Orthodox term of autocepha...Er, how about using the Orthodox term of autocephalous churches? That way we don't have to define a whole new term ourselves, nor do we get stuck in the rut of using circumlocutions or lengthy and inevitably growing phrases.<BR/><BR/>The Episcopal Church, therefore, is an autocephalous church in the Anglican Communion. Et cetera.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-25214396757867321562008-08-04T06:42:00.000-04:002008-08-04T06:42:00.000-04:00(Dan)To paraphrase the author: It is my ball and ...(Dan)<BR/>To paraphrase the author: It is my ball and if you don't play by my rules I am taking my ball home. Do the words "One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic" mean anything to you or are they just words consigned to the historic section of the BCP like the 39 Articles?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-6985449968476288682008-08-03T23:40:00.000-04:002008-08-03T23:40:00.000-04:00To respond to your question, joel, *I* still think...To respond to your question, joel, *I* still think the Chicago-Lambeth Quadrilateral (1886/1888) holds.<BR/><BR/>If we (TEC) continue to subscribe to it, to me it only points out the "sect-like" qualities of any denomination (from Akinolism, to Popoidism, to Southern Baptistism!) which insists upon adding extraneous dogmas to this <B>core Catholic faith</B>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-41565060851604025842008-08-03T23:37:00.000-04:002008-08-03T23:37:00.000-04:00Of course, TEC has already set up that process by ...Of course, TEC has already set up that process by calling its own regional gatherings "provinces". Is there any formal statement anywhere that TEC calls iself a "Province" of the AC?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-1401897448541440142008-08-03T20:11:00.000-04:002008-08-03T20:11:00.000-04:00Gotcha Mark,So the next step is to define, What is...Gotcha Mark,<BR/><BR/>So the next step is to define, What is Catholic, and how does this move play out within that definition? To me the answer is.. is a Protestant sort of way, but everyone is going to have to answer that question on their own. <BR/><BR/>joelAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-67163087001126317202008-08-03T19:57:00.000-04:002008-08-03T19:57:00.000-04:00.Well put. Well spoken, Mark. And you can say that....<BR/>Well put. Well spoken, Mark. And you can say that again -<BR/><BR/><I>" ... Let's not be instruments of our own oppression ... " </I>Robert Zacherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13249208047645645825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-46672134729886200892008-08-03T17:34:00.000-04:002008-08-03T17:34:00.000-04:00Brilliant. How do we begin?Brilliant. How do we begin?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com