tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post351365442496236229..comments2024-02-15T03:32:25.686-05:00Comments on Preludium, Anglican and Episcopal futures: The unexamined Covenant is not worth having...etc.Mark Harrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-76080538485633093582010-02-10T10:42:25.159-05:002010-02-10T10:42:25.159-05:00It does not help that Dr. Radner and others argue ...It does not help that Dr. Radner and others argue that TEC cannot or should not be allowed to sign the Covenant. So much for conversation. <br /><br />Mike Russell General Convention DeputyMike R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13353965540906520514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-75884520770586060532010-02-08T22:26:45.333-05:002010-02-08T22:26:45.333-05:00David/ Dahveed...don't know. Resend. Sometimes...David/ Dahveed...don't know. Resend. Sometimes I miss a few. Make sure it is signedMark Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-41815931996010841912010-02-08T13:03:00.798-05:002010-02-08T13:03:00.798-05:00Father Mark, did I have a comment get lost in the ...Father Mark, did I have a comment get lost in the nether regions?Brother Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333089314994730330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-47737152944769189502010-02-07T03:33:54.499-05:002010-02-07T03:33:54.499-05:00But communion does include the ability to make peo...But communion does include the ability to make people behave. Ever tried to take communion in a manner not permitted? In this church you may intinct, in that one you may not. Here we sip the common cup. Common cup? Oh, no, too many germs, we changed to small glasses years ago. :)Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-17607563377350536712010-02-06T19:23:14.483-05:002010-02-06T19:23:14.483-05:00In re: Fr. Carroll's question.
I think we kne...In re: Fr. Carroll's question.<br /><br />I think we <b>knew</b> what a communion looked like. "Communion" does not contain the ability to 'make them behave.' There are those (IRD; AC-NA; Forward in Faith inter alia) who demand that the mechanism to do that be found and "Communion" re-defined to impose it.<br /><br />Not only because this idea is not a communion but rather a denomination: it is unwise.<br /><br />"Covenant" proponents should remember that what they seek is a sword that may cut both ways (cf. the "incursion" discussion in Windsor.) What they hope to do to TEC; AC Canada and TEC of Scotland could equally be done to them. It is simply a bad idea.<br /><br />FWIW<br />jimBJimBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17312606954135884910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-3154993995781863152010-02-06T19:19:24.394-05:002010-02-06T19:19:24.394-05:00Perhaps one might question why some of the smaller...Perhaps one might question why some of the smaller provinces have not weighed in on this seemingly critical covenant: they simply do not have the time or luxury to deal with something like this when they are dealing with survival of their people who are beaten down by the economy and disaster after disaster.Caminantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16610142955176992982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-80092570426012248712010-02-06T12:24:45.808-05:002010-02-06T12:24:45.808-05:00Autonomy: we seem to know what that looks like as ...Autonomy: we seem to know what that looks like as Anglican churches, not least because we have in most if not all cases expressed it in our constitutions. Communion: do we yet know what that looks like? <br /><br />As long as we highlight the difficulties of the Covenant, even think it unlikely that anyone will sign to it (pace Jim's comment), we are underlining the dominance of autonomy. <br /><br />If we do not want to covenant together in communion, should we drop the word 'Communion' for something more accurate about our life as autonomous churches who like to meet together but do not wish to be accountable to one another? A word, perhaps, such as 'association'?Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-46296888995656139912010-02-06T11:31:43.147-05:002010-02-06T11:31:43.147-05:00I hate my spell checker sometimes! Sorry for the ...I hate my spell checker sometimes! Sorry for the typo!<br /><br />"Thirty some churches each with a unique culture and substantial intellectual resources <b>ate</b> likely ...." <br /><br />should read:<br /><br />"Thirty some churches each with a unique culture and substantial intellectual resources <b>a<i>re</i></b> likely ...."<br /><br />::sigh:: <br /><br />My bad!<br /><br />FWIW<br />jimBJimBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17312606954135884910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-62667441725990197022010-02-05T23:13:01.940-05:002010-02-05T23:13:01.940-05:00The great problem with this covenant is that it ex...The great problem with this covenant is that it exists in the minds of the proponents and most especially Dr. Williams as a perfected document. <br /><br />Thirty some churches each with a unique culture and substantial intellectual resources ate likely to produce a fair number of issues, objections, limited agreements, commentaries and the like. Almost no one is going to be willing I predict to simply sign. <br /><br />Dr. Williams however seems to want a take it or leave it call. In my view the correct response will be leave it. <br /><br />FWIW<br />jimBJimBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17312606954135884910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-27465665710045551512010-02-05T19:04:13.549-05:002010-02-05T19:04:13.549-05:00I'm a little unkind to A Frame and Ephraim, an...I'm a little unkind to A Frame and Ephraim, and the cartoon (one of two for him so far) ended up like something towards the appearance of Fred Flintstone. British people might think that my cartoon of Christopher Seitz looks like the cricketer Geoff Boycott. But the Churchillian satire relates to the individual Radner part that is perhaps the less interesting and not what you are discussing.<br /><br />My criticism is the repeat one: if there is something important to say, say it as briefly as possible. Length does not indicate gravitas. I don't always manage to keep to this rule myself.<br /><br />Perhaps the target of my satire will change, should Churches that ought not to sign the Covenant start to sign it. The point remains: if you don't want what it offers then don't sign.<br /><br />Meanwhile I am aware that this is becoming more like loose ends for me as I go off elsewhere. At one time I wanted the Anglican position to include people like me, but I am beyond the boundary, and whilst retaining my ecumenical and sympathetic outlook, and some sharing, I myself need a more liberal setting than even the Episcopalians could provide or should.Pluralist (Adrian Worsfold)https://www.blogger.com/profile/01922153724523820866noreply@blogger.com