tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post3754783420240483161..comments2024-02-15T03:32:25.686-05:00Comments on Preludium, Anglican and Episcopal futures: Amazing Grace and Some Surprise in Bishop Gene Robinson's Announcement.Mark Harrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-40771115574962005772010-11-10T17:55:41.849-05:002010-11-10T17:55:41.849-05:00MarkBrunson. What a rude, intemperate, boorish com...MarkBrunson. What a rude, intemperate, boorish comment. Do you have no filters? Is this the new generous TEC spirit?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-64608336016254559632010-11-10T00:51:01.047-05:002010-11-10T00:51:01.047-05:00It's what you are. Sorry. Get used to it, or...It's what you are. Sorry. Get used to it, or convert.MarkBrunsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16971990948866488080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-58772849826894895972010-11-09T12:08:32.933-05:002010-11-09T12:08:32.933-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Lapinbizarrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686990585795363001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-77494238741209022552010-11-09T10:02:16.032-05:002010-11-09T10:02:16.032-05:00It is amazing that after seven years as bishop +VG...It is amazing that after seven years as bishop +VGR still engenders such feelings. I have to say he brings on some of this himself with his constant drumbeat of victimization which is, true to form, part of his retirement statement. He could of opted for just, "I'm retiring."<br /><br />Just the thoughts of a godless, "orthodox" belly-worshiperThe Rev Canon Dr David Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09878281384587956210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-14960458059994926332010-11-09T08:31:54.760-05:002010-11-09T08:31:54.760-05:00What matters is that DioNH did a righteous, gracef...What matters is that DioNH did a righteous, graceful, and necessary thing when they elected +Gene Robinson, and that he has been a righteous, grace-filled, and dedicated servant both of Christ and of NH. And he has borne the brunt of being the first, walking through the fires with the light and love of Christ directing his difficult steps. I curtsy to you, Gene Robinson.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11015463457108574582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-49664264498068982972010-11-08T23:55:11.863-05:002010-11-08T23:55:11.863-05:00This is an announcement about a godly man and his ...This is an announcement about a godly man and his retirement from the ministry - don't let godless "orthodox" belly-worshippers hijack it. <br /><br />Please.<br /><br />They are not worth engaging at any level.MarkBrunsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16971990948866488080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-64764405846199234112010-11-08T18:24:46.671-05:002010-11-08T18:24:46.671-05:00In the years that I have served the Episcopal Chur...In the years that I have served the Episcopal Church, I have met many people who were "dechurched" because of the wounds that were inflictd on them religious leaders. I have never been treated as badly as Gene Robinson has been and I am not sure that I wouldn't have become dechurched if I had been. It is sad that his graciousness and his work at welcoming those who have been wounded is still answered with hate.Daniel Weirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11430381764138066595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-28785805363451128282010-11-08T12:13:36.210-05:002010-11-08T12:13:36.210-05:00Perhaps the solution to the declining number probl...Perhaps the solution to the declining number problem is the one suggested by +Robinson. Perhaps we should try to bring the Gospel to all those who've been alienated from it. It's time to put the Gospel into the hands of all those people who find themselves unwelcome in most other churches.<br /><br />I've always noticed that after the old WASP establishment largely abandoned the Episcopal Church long ago for secularism or for evangelical churches, membership appears to be sustained by a steady stream of disillusioned and disenchanted Roman Catholics. That's certainly the case in most of the parishes I've belonged to where ex-Roman Catholics made up the majority.Counterlighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14345956180434795401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-78939496457634898992010-11-08T09:32:14.374-05:002010-11-08T09:32:14.374-05:00"The idea that Christianity had one member an..."The idea that Christianity had one member and so we ought not to have concern seemed nonsensical."<br /><br />I don't know. To people who were there at the time, this Christianity business looked doomed to extinction on that first Good Friday, and on the day after.<br /><br /> If you took a poll of Jerusalem general public in those two days, I would imagine that the overwhelming majority would have responded by saying that blaspheming trouble-making Nazarene upstart got what he deserved and we are well rid of him.<br />I would imagine that some of his followers, even his closest ones, felt not only shocked and disappointed, but hoodwinked as well.<br /><br />As the third day always reminds us, you just never know how things will ultimately turn out.<br /><br />I should point out that despite all the forecasts of doom for the Episcopal Church, my vile disgustingly liberal parish in decadent old New York is quite healthy and expanding.<br />The same was true for other vile disgustingly liberal parishes I belonged to in the Midwest when I lived there.Counterlighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14345956180434795401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-35644266658570036612010-11-08T08:25:00.176-05:002010-11-08T08:25:00.176-05:00I appreciate your concern. However, I am not the a...I appreciate your concern. However, I am not the anonymous who introduced the topic, but am AJM responding to the five responses to it. The idea that Christianity had one member and so we ought not to have concern seemed nonsensical. Just to clarify. AJMAJMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-78561766453454111272010-11-07T22:46:02.848-05:002010-11-07T22:46:02.848-05:00I am disappointed that some are using this venue t...I am disappointed that some are using this venue to dump on Bishop Robinson even in the context of his announcing his retirement. If there is continuing interest in comparing the level of decline or change in the statistics of the Diocese of New Hampshire vs other dioceses, or of TEC in general vs ACNA, or whatever... go somewhere else to do it. This post was about the gracious and revealing statement by Bishop Robinson on the occasion of announcing his retirement yet to come.<br /><br />How about sticking to the text and finding there a reason to give thanks for his ministry, or if not that to reflect on that ministry in the light of his comments.<br /><br />You will have plenty of time to spit in the soup on other occasions. <br /><br />I am mostly tired of hearing again and again from mr. Anonymous that TEC is headed for doom. But here, in this discussion about this announcement, I will take no further comments. Posts are automatic here, but I will review them daily and I will delete any that continue in this line.<br /><br />At Preludium the doom sayers have lots of room to vent. But this is not the post in which to do it.Mark Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-55970947886410762852010-11-07T21:14:38.588-05:002010-11-07T21:14:38.588-05:00The idea of Christianity of composed of 1 member i...<i>The idea of Christianity of composed of 1 member is foolishness</i><br /><br />"The foolishness of God is wiser than men" <br /><br />[I Cor 1:25---though truthfully, I thought of it as quoted by one of the Missuses in <i>A Wrinkle in Time</i>! ;-p (By good Piskie Madeline L'Engle, OBM)]JCFnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-32559755826311321352010-11-07T20:36:53.224-05:002010-11-07T20:36:53.224-05:00"You simply can't have a diocese with suc...<i>"You simply can't have a diocese with such tiny numbers"</i> - hadn't noticed any shortage of Secessionist bishops, AJM.Lapinbizarrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686990585795363001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-48739965220110414512010-11-07T19:18:31.323-05:002010-11-07T19:18:31.323-05:00NH's ASA has declined from 5174 in 2002 (the l...NH's ASA has declined from 5174 in 2002 (the last year before his election and consecration) to 4234 in 2008--a decline of 18%. TEC's domestic dioceses as a whole have gone from 846,640 to 705,257, a loss of 141,383 (-17%) (a loss equivalent to 16 average 2002 dioceses or 27 dioceses the size of NH).<br /> <br />For comparison, nearby Albany with similar demographics (although half again as big as NH) has declined 12% and Texas, with very different demographics and six times the size of NH, has declined 14%.<br /><br />Friends, the good news is that at last it sounds like the PB understands the problem, or has been forced to. A diocese with under 4000 people in worship on Sunday -- and some are smaller than that -- is unsustainable eo ipse and on the former model of a healthy, growing church. 'Nimbleness' is the new watchword and not a minute too soon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-5635329429644915712010-11-07T19:04:23.155-05:002010-11-07T19:04:23.155-05:00Only one member? Jesus Christ came from the bosom ...Only one member? Jesus Christ came from the bosom of Israel and called his brothers to be his apostles. They spread the gospel to the nations. The idea of Christianity of composed of 1 member is foolishness, and a seeking of a justification for a denominational collapse -- a denomination that is of course but a tiny, tiny bit of Christianity as a whole. <br />As for facts, the figures are easy to find -- I think NH went downwards to the tune of 18%. You simply can't have a diocese with such tiny numbers -- I think this is also why even the PB now speaks of dioceses merging and 'being nimble.' I wonder when the shoe dropped? AJMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-21295010550456095142010-11-07T18:19:01.258-05:002010-11-07T18:19:01.258-05:00So sorry to hear +Robinson will retire, but I supp...So sorry to hear +Robinson will retire, but I suppose that when one considers all he has went through in his efforts to serve Christ and his Church, his retirement is well deserved. He has endured the hatred of the so-called "orthodox" bravely and honorably. <br /><br />Even though I have never met Bishop Robinson, I feel like I know him. I may not be from New Hampshire, but I have always felt he was MY Bishop.David and Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09545394141617985139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-49818338256461683932010-11-07T17:50:34.013-05:002010-11-07T17:50:34.013-05:00As I recall, at one point in its history, the Chri...As I recall, at one point in its history, the Christian Faith was down to only one member, and He was dying on a cross.<br /><br />So maybe Anon we could boost church attendance by introducing some Ugandan type legislation? Clear out the queers? That should bring them in. <br /><br />Nothing $ucceed$ like $ucce$$.Counterlighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14345956180434795401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-38390464541918273432010-11-07T16:54:11.114-05:002010-11-07T16:54:11.114-05:00Re: anonymous, I will always be able to say that m...Re: anonymous, I will always be able to say that my wife and I were among the first people who were confirmed by Bishop Robinson and that I have never had a moments regret for that decision. Our congregation has lost some members to other churches but we also continue to attract new people.Walter Ryannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-9809975788037659012010-11-07T16:18:42.292-05:002010-11-07T16:18:42.292-05:00Be fun to see ACNA's statistics for the next ...Be fun to see ACNA's statistics for the next eight or ten years.Lapinbizarrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686990585795363001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-43456230838875955502010-11-07T16:16:07.363-05:002010-11-07T16:16:07.363-05:00From the NY Times.com article:
The number of activ...From the NY Times.com article:<br /><i>The number of active members in New Hampshire fell 3 percent, from 15,259 in 2003 to 14,787 in 2009. In that period, the Episcopal Church, like most mainline Protestant denominations, lost about 10 percent of its members. (It had about two million in 2008, the last year for which statistics are available.)</i><br /><br />So, at worst it made no difference and at best, it declined less than other areas. Not that such a thing is a recommendation...Tom Sramek, Jr.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17891982131922786298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-35066117790849891662010-11-07T11:46:41.635-05:002010-11-07T11:46:41.635-05:00how has attendance on Sundays changed in NH since ...how has attendance on Sundays changed in NH since 2003?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-5689876875073863102010-11-07T07:55:45.240-05:002010-11-07T07:55:45.240-05:00Thank you Bishop Gene. You've done more good ...Thank you Bishop Gene. You've done more good than you know.<br /><br />I second Margaret's comment and I too know people who came in, or returned, to the Church because of Bishop Robinson, and because of the grace and courage of New Hampshire's Episcopalians, and because of the grace and courage of the Episcopal Church.<br /><br />All three have been a beacon of great hope to so many of us so unjustly consigned to outer darkness.Counterlighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14345956180434795401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-85231543990167825882010-11-07T07:14:11.948-05:002010-11-07T07:14:11.948-05:00God bless +Gene and his husband. He has achieved e...God bless +Gene and his husband. He has achieved evangelism --perhaps more than he can imagine --when we went to the Gay Pride Day here in Richmond, some teens came up to our booth and asked, 'is this Gene Robinson's church?' --and then, they actually came to church last Sunday. I am meeting with one of the teens next week to begin to discern baptism.<br /><br />But it would also seem to be a good time to remember the toll the hostility and condemnation have taken on many of our LGBTQ sisters and brothers. And rather than having a beacon in the forefront, we must all carry that light in a new and brave way.<br /><br />Thank you +Gene for all you have done and accomplished and carried for all of us.it's margarethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13577280471100732619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-19900839056568802162010-11-07T01:42:58.417-04:002010-11-07T01:42:58.417-04:00Thank you so much for sharing his statement. He i...Thank you so much for sharing his statement. He is such a great servant of God... and definitely an asset to the Church, especially the congregations in New Hampshire.SCGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08162762233972733978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-54866578402305737312010-11-06T23:55:53.611-04:002010-11-06T23:55:53.611-04:00Such a Godly man. TBTG for him! To +Gene! [Many bl...Such a Godly man. TBTG for him! To +Gene! [Many blessings, DioNH, to even find HALF as decent a replacement... ;-/]<br /><br />Special prayers for +Mary Glasspool in this time of transition, as well. I don't doubt for a *second*, that +Mary's consecration made +Gene's decision easier . . . but the cross-hairs (!) will now focus solely (for the time being) on +Mary. God bless and defend your faithful servant!JCFnoreply@blogger.com