tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post448570847526035675..comments2024-02-15T03:32:25.686-05:00Comments on Preludium, Anglican and Episcopal futures: Chicago Consultation on track.Mark Harrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-49835153224128309622009-02-17T10:37:00.000-05:002009-02-17T10:37:00.000-05:00"Lynn - That's exactly the kind of comment that ge..."Lynn - That's exactly the kind of comment that gets us TEC folks branded as elitist. I don't think it's helpful."<BR/><BR/>It may be elitist, but it's also true. Stadiums in Texas filled to the brim with wildly cheering evangelical Baptists never convinced me to be a Baptist or an evangelical. I should have grave doubts about anyone whose beliefs shift with every turn of a weathervane.<BR/>There are times when General Sherman was right when he said, "Vox Populi, Pox Populi!" <BR/>The voice of the People is not necessarily the voice of God. Usually, it is a whole lot of random individuals who happen to agree, rightly or wrongly. I believe in God, but I don't necessarily believe in that entity called The People. <BR/>There are times when we must stand our small plot of truth. If racial segregation had ever been put to a vote, believe me we'd still have racial segregation.Counterlighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14345956180434795401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-78586487935837951152009-02-16T18:53:00.000-05:002009-02-16T18:53:00.000-05:00"I'm not particularly concerned about being out of..."I'm not particularly concerned about being out of step with 90% of the world's Christians. I'm no more inclined to accept their limited understanding of religion than I am to ask their opinions on mathematical models of deterministic chaos theory."<BR/>Lynn - That's exactly the kind of comment that gets us TEC folks branded as elitist. I don't think it's helpful.<BR/><BR/>Peaceepiscogalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00880107577218805616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-11807930360117101392009-02-16T14:17:00.000-05:002009-02-16T14:17:00.000-05:00Allen, Mark asked you to share the specifics of yo...Allen, Mark asked you to share the specifics of your diocese and parish; the name of our state is not the name of your diocese, since Virginia has three such entities. You put yourself in the shoes of the drunk telling the judge, "I had two drinks," forgetting to add, "and then drank seven more."<BR/><BR/>I'm not particularly concerned about being out of step with 90% of the world's Christians. I'm no more inclined to accept their limited understanding of religion than I am to ask their opinions on mathematical models of deterministic chaos theory.Lynnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09748809418423591030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-33684200741849742742009-02-16T10:17:00.000-05:002009-02-16T10:17:00.000-05:00As I said, Lynn, I live in Virginia. But what does...As I said, Lynn, I live in Virginia. But what does it matter anymore what parish or diocese? Apparently the new agenda is willing to rip parishes and dioceses asunder. God has left 9/10ths of Christianity out of the loop except for some bright TEC folks who have received these private revelations about redefining everything.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-44805741124676556712009-02-16T03:22:00.000-05:002009-02-16T03:22:00.000-05:00Sir, this statement from your Chicago group is cle...Sir, this statement from your Chicago group is clear but is TEC willing to take the consequences of its convictions? <BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, too many in TEC like bing invited to international Anglican shindigs (maybe it is just the airmiles?).... so, I expect another duplicitous, political, BO33 style compromise out of TEC at GC09.... perhaps saying one thing but inteding to do another but still lacking in integrity - hope I am wrong.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-87665808661259069112009-02-16T01:58:00.000-05:002009-02-16T01:58:00.000-05:00Allen,In October 2008 you told us your diocesan bi...Allen,<BR/><BR/>In October 2008 you told us your diocesan bishop was Powell, and you lived in SW Virginia. (<A> href="http://anglicanfuture.blogspot.com/2008/07/archbishop-orombi-threatened-prelate-or.html?showComment=1215663660000"</A>) Have you moved, or were you dishonest in one of your posts? I'm guessing you are actually in the Diocese of Southern Virginia.<BR/><BR/><EM>"But does it matter what parish or diocese...?"</EM> Actually, it makes a difference to me since I live in the Diocese of Virginia, and until now the departing parishes were pretty much The Falls, Truro and their plants.<BR/><BR/>Allen - I rarely agree with your outlook on the Episcopal Church, but I always thought your opinions were those of an honest man. Want to come clean?Lynnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09748809418423591030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-418740097786816822009-02-15T17:08:00.000-05:002009-02-15T17:08:00.000-05:00Allen, unless I misread you, you seem bitter and o...Allen, unless I misread you, you seem bitter and overly pessimistic. Remember that it's not your church or my church, but God's church, and God will not abandon us, neither those of us who are like-minded to you, nor those who are like-minded to me.<BR/><BR/><I>The average GC delegate is a lot more liberal than the average member. That's been proven time and again.</I><BR/><BR/>I don't know about the average for the whole church, but the delegates from my diocese will be far more conservative than I, and even if GC does not go in the direction that they would prefer, I believe they will remain part of the Episcopal Church.<BR/><BR/>In my humble opinion, it seems that few isolate you, but it is rather that you isolate yourselves. Of course, I could be wrong.June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-11408387605740120382009-02-15T16:01:00.000-05:002009-02-15T16:01:00.000-05:00Virginia. But does it matter what parish or dioces...Virginia. But does it matter what parish or diocese, Mark? Our suffering Church is already losing 1,000 members a week and the equivalent of one average attendance parish. What's one more? What's another dozen? Another few churches a month? I had the impression that the Spirit has squarely landed in the lap of Integrity and EpiScope supporters to such the extent that the reappraiser's "new thing" was all that mattered; people or not. Forget the human debris left behind and the vastly reduced number of adherents in the Episcopal Church. Now that the conservatives have been shamed and shunned out of the way, or left from sheer disgust, GC '09 will be the equivalent of progressive liberal nirvana. Just stand up and pass resolutions on the floor that you're redefining everything from the Creed, to the meaning of marriage, to qualification to ordination, to the equality of all religions, etc. Just tell the people what the past forty years have been all about and get it out in the open with more pronouncements and resolutions that the home folks will have to swallow. But please don't act like this process has any validity by having "hearings". The average GC delegate is a lot more liberal than the average member. That's been proven time and again. So GC will be a playground of innovation as though the Lord Jesus just left this earth and gave you secret instructions to invent something that no other Christian generation or contemporary Christian body understood. The GC delegates will be very pleased with themselves and will tool around their dioceses telling people how wonderful God is to be moving in the total opposite direction as the majority of world Anglicanism, let alone world Christianity. Please, go ahead an isolate us more, but don't have us believe that a holy and valid process has been at work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-9914282750248314972009-02-15T00:57:00.000-05:002009-02-15T00:57:00.000-05:00Mark,I think you should amend your last to say, "I...Mark,<BR/><BR/>I think you should amend your last to say, "I hope your church sends your delegates to speak their minds, but I 'm sure that they will remain in the minority." Don't blame you for looking forward to the meeting, but let's not pretend that the answer has not already been determined. The debate has been had and won by your side. <BR/><BR/>JoelAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-18176937840026699052009-02-14T22:01:00.000-05:002009-02-14T22:01:00.000-05:00Allen...long time no hear. The Chicago Consultatio...Allen...long time no hear. The Chicago Consultation is speaking its mind, you speak yours. I hope your congregation or your diocese or your point of view has deputies at convention as well. They will be heard, so will people from across the church most of whom are not so called "reapprasisers" With God's good grace we will all be heard in hearings, committees and on the floor.Then we will have to consider what resolutions come before us and live with the results. <BR/><BR/>Interested in telling us your diocese and parish?Mark Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-83805201054076035122009-02-14T19:49:00.000-05:002009-02-14T19:49:00.000-05:00Go for it Mark!GC '09 should be the time that reap...Go for it Mark!<BR/><BR/>GC '09 should be the time that reappraisers stand up and finally admit that the agenda for years has been to redefine marriage, ordination, etc., etc., etc. The piecemeal withering of opposition doesn't have to occur. Be bold. Be loud. Put all those delegates on their feet shouting your cause.<BR/><BR/>Then, be ready to live with what comes next. Our whole parish is gearing up to leave with property once you set us outside of the Christian faith. Go for it. We're ready. Lawyers and all. Then multiply this promise 1,000 times over and you will see the wholesale destruction of TEC by 2015. Please. Finally have the integrity to say that you're smarter than anyone else and that splitting this Church to shreds is a holy thing to do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-2954602516620857342009-02-14T17:19:00.000-05:002009-02-14T17:19:00.000-05:00Clarity is, indeed, a lovely thing. Thank you all...Clarity is, indeed, a lovely thing. <BR/><BR/>Thank you all for your hard work.June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-35608198685436513792009-02-14T14:25:00.000-05:002009-02-14T14:25:00.000-05:00Love it. Understandable, direct, CLEAN and unasha...Love it. Understandable, direct, CLEAN and unashamed and uncompromised...away with the ¨prudent/cowardly¨ and reserved, read nervous, approach (posing as being considerate of *others* while LGBT Christians are abused at Church/beyond)...God wants aunthenticity (at least that´s the spiritual message that I´ve been receiving for decades...being accountable and responsible counts!).Leonardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16667415590825321701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-10126882694933603302009-02-14T12:16:00.000-05:002009-02-14T12:16:00.000-05:00Wow! Total clarity, in very few words (relatively ...Wow! Total clarity, in very few words (relatively speaking). I am so proud of all of you. Thank you for the time you have spent on our behalf.Lois Keenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13708877817422097051noreply@blogger.com