tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post6359422531980881190..comments2024-02-15T03:32:25.686-05:00Comments on Preludium, Anglican and Episcopal futures: Sweeping up prior to the House of Bishops Meeting.Mark Harrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-1318845150090154062008-09-18T17:23:00.000-04:002008-09-18T17:23:00.000-04:00Why is it that Obadiahslope comes slithering out o...Why is it that Obadiahslope comes slithering out of the woodwork every time he feels that one of the Sanctified of Central Africa/Global South is being denigrated?<BR/><BR/>This man, Orombi, is a potty mouth. He speaks despicable and indefensible things about me and my sexual minority kin.<BR/><BR/>Please stop coming to defend this unrepentant miscreant disguised in bishop's drag.<BR/><BR/>It truly becomes tiring to hear. They have no corner on righteousness, but are whitewashed tombs filled with dead men's bones.Brother Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333089314994730330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-1951680725132575442008-09-18T11:18:00.000-04:002008-09-18T11:18:00.000-04:00You have a point, Obadiahslope, though the figure ...You have a point, Obadiahslope, though the figure of $200,000 is hesitantly revealed in the course of the interview. In the absence of more concrete evidence I will avoid use of the term in future. A recent chairman of the South Carolina Democratic Party, accused of trading favors for votes in the State House, commented, a little ill-advisedly as things turned out, that he had no interest in buying the African-American vote, merely in renting it for the day. This, perhaps, would be a more appropriate analogy? It will not be easy to persuade me that there's no tit-for-tat factor here.Lapinbizarrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686990585795363001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-12200285841649980582008-09-18T00:51:00.000-04:002008-09-18T00:51:00.000-04:00Let me congratulate you on your research Lapin! Or...Let me congratulate you on your research Lapin! Orombi certainly does acknowledge gifts from the west.<BR/>Does this constitute a paymaster relationship?I am sure, listening to his words in that interview, Orombi does not consider it that way. rather he is clear in saying "the church of uganda has come of age..."<BR/>Lets consider some progressive examples of gifts. TEC has been generous to the reconstituted Diocese of San Joaquin. Does this mean that Bp Jeffert Schori is Bp Lamb's paymaster?<BR/>Or consider Trinity Wall street's considerable gifts to third world churches...is this a paymaster relationship?<BR/>Undoubtably some conservative commentators woukd say "yes" in both caeses, but this is to my mind uncharitable.<BR/>In the same way to describe Bp Orombi as having paymasters might be something you might wish to reword. It is food for thought anyway.<BR/><BR/>ObadiahslopeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-19739271582100815572008-09-17T11:00:00.000-04:002008-09-17T11:00:00.000-04:00You will find Orombi's September 9, 2007 Anglican ...You will find Orombi's September 9, 2007 Anglican TV interview at this URL, Obadiahslope:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.anglicantv.org/blog/index.cfm/2007/9/9/Archbishop-Henry-Orombi" REL="nofollow">http://www.anglicantv.org/blog/index.cfm/2007/9/9/Archbishop-Henry-Orombi</A><BR/><BR/>"... they support us, they give us money. Oh they give us money. Since we began to relate with our orthodox brethren they have given us much more money, much more money, oh yeah, much more money. They have given us more money."Lapinbizarrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686990585795363001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-73773779433823792022008-09-17T07:43:00.000-04:002008-09-17T07:43:00.000-04:00I believe in the holy catholic Church. So do I. Un...<I>I believe in the holy catholic Church. </I><BR/><BR/>So do I. Unlike you, however, I am not under the delusion that it is an administrative whole, or that one national Church has disciplinary authority over another. If that's what you're after (and it sounds like that's what you and others want), then you know where to go.The Religious Pícarohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03620636294081499041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-30978011649416388632008-09-17T02:30:00.000-04:002008-09-17T02:30:00.000-04:00Shall we argue how many angels can dance on the he...Shall we argue how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? I hear no discussion about +Duncan. He has abandoned the doctrine and discipline of the Episcopal Church. He deposes himself, the HOB simply confirm what +Duncan has been doing all along. And I am appalled that I read some references to Jesus -- I find that, in all flavors, to be in very poor taste. There is but one Christ -- he died 200 years ago and alluding that +Duncan is Christ is anathema. Sorry Dan(?)Frank Remkiewicz aka “Tree”https://www.blogger.com/profile/00501821790434895826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-82882495311072177602008-09-17T02:26:00.000-04:002008-09-17T02:26:00.000-04:00Allen,The Body has many parts and they all are imp...Allen,<BR/><BR/>The Body has many parts and they all are important. TEC is one part in the "world church," with understandings, teachings, values, that may be different from what is understood in other countries of the world. I don't believe there is one "voice" to speak for the world church, nor should there be. <BR/><BR/>We have enough in common to hold us together as Christians, and as Anglicans, if we can respect our differences.Beryl Simkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04518248428800542990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-77646797592023833702008-09-16T23:39:00.000-04:002008-09-16T23:39:00.000-04:00Allen, If you have nothing to demonstrate of God, ...Allen, <BR/><BR/>If you have nothing to demonstrate of God, how can you claim to teach those who do?<BR/><BR/>I think, pardon me, you are only here to soothe your own sense of frustration and helplessness. This is no good to the Kingdom, to you, or to us.<BR/><BR/>I shall not address you again, as to encourage you is to harm you.MarkBrunsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16971990948866488080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-29945027079312720212008-09-16T23:38:00.000-04:002008-09-16T23:38:00.000-04:00Anon(Dan):If you prefer, JCF, the crowd speaks to ...Anon(Dan):<BR/><BR/><I>If you prefer, JCF, the crowd speaks to the High Priest and to the HOB: "Crucify him, crucify him!"</I><BR/><BR/>So true.<BR/><BR/>Ergo, why do you and your "crowd" hate +Gene Robinson so much? Is it that his <B>honesty</B> puts (x)Duncan's disingenous mendacity to shame?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-89568363599274543392008-09-16T23:36:00.000-04:002008-09-16T23:36:00.000-04:00Just because the "larger" church says it, doesn't ...Just because the "larger" church says it, doesn't make it right.<BR/><BR/>That is the essence of prophetic witness.<BR/><BR/>The "larger" community of Israel shouted "Crucify him! Crucify him!"<BR/><BR/>The "larger" community of the church sought to stop the English Reformation, and even to take the life of Elizabeth.<BR/><BR/>The "larger" is the "world" you so denigrate.<BR/><BR/>If you believe you speak in love, then <I>demonstrate</I> the love. You say we are unwilling to be convinced, which is a way to cop out -- you simply are not convincing, and we see no evidence of love.<BR/><BR/>I accept that the same <I>may</I> be true of liberal commenters on Reasserter blogs. It is certainly true of you here.<BR/><BR/>Consider your witness before you ask us to consider ours.MarkBrunsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16971990948866488080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-40169909866478835772008-09-16T21:18:00.000-04:002008-09-16T21:18:00.000-04:00billyd noted: "If you are interested in becoming p...billyd noted:<BR/> "If you are interested in becoming part of a world Church, you are certainly free to join the Roman Catholic Church". <BR/><BR/>Nope. I believe in the holy catholic Church. If you don't, then just stay silent on Sunday when you come to that affirmation in the Nicene Creed. TEC didn't invent the Church, doesn't make up the sum of its parts, but affirms daily and weekly that we are "in" it. Don't have to adhere to Rome to be part of the larger Church.<BR/><BR/>That larger Church is speaking. Care to listen?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-81740727927874588112008-09-16T18:57:00.000-04:002008-09-16T18:57:00.000-04:00Lapin.you name Henry Orombi as having a paymaster....Lapin.<BR/>you name Henry Orombi as having a paymaster. If you have any evidence of Bishop Orombi being financed outside of his province, by someone who wants to influence him, please provide the evidence, or leave his name out of your accusation. <BR/>While Jim Naughton's research provides evidence of some funds to conservative Anglican causes, you need to be careful before naming individuals as having "paymasters", or accusing bishops of being in the pay of any group.<BR/><BR/>ObadiahslopeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-42603051633820351522008-09-16T15:42:00.000-04:002008-09-16T15:42:00.000-04:00(Dan)If you prefer, JCF, the crowd speaks to the H...(Dan)<BR/><BR/>If you prefer, JCF, the crowd speaks to the High Priest and to the HOB:<BR/><BR/>"Crucify him, crucify him!"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-77978041644577410082008-09-16T11:03:00.000-04:002008-09-16T11:03:00.000-04:00I'm speaking up for the truths that hurt:..be part...<I>I'm speaking up for the truths that hurt:..be part of a world Church and not become a micro-Church in isolation...</I><BR/><BR/>If you are interested in becoming part of a world Church, you are certainly free to join the Roman Catholic Church. But the Anglican Communion is not, and never has been, a world Church in that way. It is a fairly loose-knit family of national/provincial Churches. What you are pushing does not seem to be the truth, but wishful thinking on your part.The Religious Pícarohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03620636294081499041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-1189065366101981932008-09-16T10:11:00.000-04:002008-09-16T10:11:00.000-04:00".... cough up an asnwer [sic] on where 815 c...".... cough up an asnwer [sic] on where 815 came up with millions for the lawsuits". <BR/><BR/>Interesting question, Allen. Where is the money coming from? The Communist International? The Elders of Zion? Ben Affleck & Matt Damon? Guess you have some idea, Allen. Inquiring minds want to know. <BR/><BR/>As to the "they send us so much money" paymasters of Henry Orombi & Co., we've got a pretty good idea of where that cash is coming from, don't we? Check out Jim Naughton's "Following the Money".Lapinbizarrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686990585795363001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-13716338623506556842008-09-16T08:42:00.000-04:002008-09-16T08:42:00.000-04:00Mark,Contrarians have nothing good to say for God?...Mark,<BR/><BR/>Contrarians have nothing good to say for God? I'm not speaking for God. Seems that the New Thing crowd have that corner on wisdom and the spine to say that they speak for God when a majority of Anglican and ecumenical voices have said otherwise.<BR/><BR/>I'm speaking up for the truths that hurt: follow canons when you want Duncan out, be part of a world Church and not become a micro-Church in isolation, stop chasing members through court, cough up an asnwer on where 815 came up with millions for the lawsuits (the 4 retired bishops never got an answer...and neither did we).<BR/><BR/>Truth hurts when it has to come out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-90832306975354750362008-09-16T07:54:00.000-04:002008-09-16T07:54:00.000-04:00Mark (not Mark Harris) left a comment tht got cut ...Mark (not Mark Harris) left a comment tht got cut by accident. Sorry Mark.<BR/><BR/>Mark has left a new comment on your post "Sweeping up prior to the House of Bishops Meeting....": <BR/><BR/>For people who believe they are going about the Great Commission and witnessing to God, our Reasserters and - of course - contrarians have nothing good to say for God.<BR/><BR/>If they truly are witnessing, it's a bad witness to make people enemies.Mark Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-55631496753235702562008-09-16T07:52:00.000-04:002008-09-16T07:52:00.000-04:00JCF left a comment that got cut by accident. Sorry...JCF left a comment that got cut by accident. Sorry JCF<BR/><BR/>JCF has left a new comment on your post "Sweeping up prior to the House of Bishops Meeting....": <BR/><BR/>(Dan) God to the HOB<BR/><BR/>I see you've received a promotion, Anonymous (Dan).<BR/><BR/>[Qualifications for the promotion? Why is Sarah Palin coming to mind? ;-/]Mark Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-78666380164975268212008-09-16T07:51:00.000-04:002008-09-16T07:51:00.000-04:00Robert Zacher left a comment which got cut by acci...Robert Zacher left a comment which got cut by accident here it is. sorry Robert.<BR/><BR/>Robert Zacher has left a new comment on your post "Sweeping up prior to the House of Bishops Meeting....": <BR/><BR/>We heard all of this injured complaining on the web about "illegality" when David Schofield was deposed. I'm sure we will hear more of the same with "+Bob Pittsburgh." Bottom line is that all the bishops of this ilk want a free pass to pack up their dioceses and move them all, lock, stock and communion plate, to the convenient "legal" and offshore cubby hole provided by Gregory Venables.<BR/><BR/>This set up gives ultra-conservative partisans their chance to further vilify The Episcopal Church. Get ready for another round of fiber-optic meltdown about the wicked "Mrs. Schori" and her cabal of evil doers at 815 Second Ave. For those purposes I see that the law memo submission on procedure for the Duncan case, while a perfectly normal procedural instrument, needs to be presented to us as <BR/><BR/>... shady and illegal ... deceitful ... dictatorial ... (a) creative reading of the canons ... <BR/><BR/>Schofield, Duncan, Iker and Ackermann need to be bathed in the light of wisked dictatorship to be presentable episcopal martyr material for people in the pews, and especially for those who don't don't know much at all, if anything, about church polity or canon law.<BR/><BR/>From my point of view it needs to be established beyond doubt that these episcopal pirates can be taken to task and deposed for their egregious, wearisome and well documented violations of their ordination vows before the establishment of further claims of illegal constitutional votes in packed diocesan conventions.<BR/><BR/>My two cents.Mark Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-8216028184478791442008-09-15T21:36:00.000-04:002008-09-15T21:36:00.000-04:00It seems the HOB is damned-if-they-do damned-if-th...It seems the HOB is damned-if-they-do damned-if-they-don't when it comes to +Duncan. He has set everyone up to lose....it's margarethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13577280471100732619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-46420020829158430322008-09-15T19:45:00.000-04:002008-09-15T19:45:00.000-04:00You know, there's a part of me that wants to see a...You know, there's a part of me that wants to see a presentment against +Duncan and an ecclesiastical court trial. I think it would be good to get his whole tawdry saga on record for posterity. However, I do believe he would leave TEC before that were possible. The only way to go, it seems to me, is through the Abandonment of Communion Canon in the HOB. The question is, when?Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-45045174534815729712008-09-15T16:59:00.000-04:002008-09-15T16:59:00.000-04:00(Dan) God to the HOB, "What you are about to do, ...(Dan) God to the HOB, <BR/>"What you are about to do, do quickly"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-34719935312310131322008-09-15T16:58:00.000-04:002008-09-15T16:58:00.000-04:00At least as I've read things (OCICBW), the matter ...At least as I've read things (OCICBW), the matter of Duncan's deposition had already been on the agenda for the House of Bishops' meeting. The PB's memo simply seems to outline what has happened to date and what will happen at the meeting as well as addressing canonical questions that have arisen.<BR/><BR/>As for the whole canard about malfeasance, there are times when canons and other procedures are subject to multiple interpretations. In this case, the PB, her chancellor, AND the parliamentarian are all in agreement that the canons have been observed. As far as I know, they are the proper authorities in deciding such matters of procedure. (Btw, let's all remember that not one bishop objected at the time based on a supposed lack of quorum for deposition.) For those who disagree with this ruling, whom do you suggest would be the proper authority to rule in such situations other than the PB, who serves as president of the House; her canonical legal advisor; and the parliamentarian, who is specifically designated to act as an expert in parliamentary procedure?<BR/><BR/>KevinAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17550041790269387561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-73792672882406516892008-09-15T14:55:00.000-04:002008-09-15T14:55:00.000-04:00If you want to talk "so whipped into shape that th...If you want to talk "so whipped into shape that they'll bend to whim and will as told", Allen, watch the upcoming votes in the dioceses of Pittsburgh and Fort Worth.Lapinbizarrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686990585795363001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-75551209026477156472008-09-15T12:49:00.000-04:002008-09-15T12:49:00.000-04:00Mark,Please remember that there are now two Bishop...Mark,<BR/><BR/>Please remember that there are now two Bishops Beckwith in the House of Bishops. I assume that you refer in your post to the Bishop of Springfield, not to the Rt. Rev. Mark Beckwith, Bishop of Newark, who was at the March HOB meeting and will be at the September meeting.<BR/><BR/>I had a moments confusion when i read you're opening line, until I realized that you were speaking of +Peter and not +Mark (who is my bishop).<BR/><BR/>Vicki McGrath+Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com