tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post7121004454694191240..comments2024-02-15T03:32:25.686-05:00Comments on Preludium, Anglican and Episcopal futures: The Minns take on historyMark Harrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-62222296225976294832007-12-09T11:38:00.000-05:002007-12-09T11:38:00.000-05:00(Dan)Pick your bishop. One preaches the Word of G...(Dan)<BR/>Pick your bishop. One preaches the Word of God and other has always wanted to be a June bride. CANA leadership or EXCUSA leadership. Choose this day!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-21906445528170420782007-12-08T21:50:00.000-05:002007-12-08T21:50:00.000-05:00My source was here:The Convocation of Anglicans in...My source was <A HREF="http://www.examiner.com/a-1091423~Ex_Episcopal_splinter_group_expanding__official_says.html" REL="nofollow">here:</A><BR/><BR/><B>The Convocation of Anglicans in North America, or CANA, has expanded to 60 congregations and more than 100 clergy in 20 states, Missionary Bishop Martyn Minns said during a speech at the Church of the Epiphany in Herndon.</B><BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, I don't have a list of churches or priests, and I'm not a member of CANA, and wouldn't know where to find one. So if you continue to assume that Minns is lying, there's not much I can say. It seems rather popular to assume that everyone who disagrees with you is a liar and evil on this site, and I guess that's your business.<BR/><BR/>I have, however, noticed their expansion in unlikely places. I was startled to see a CANA church while visiting relatives in Oklahoma City -- a long way from Virginia. It does seem that he is being taken far more seriously than you seem to assume.RBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16752701681681717163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-19847150715123550602007-12-08T17:13:00.000-05:002007-12-08T17:13:00.000-05:00I confess I am not familiar with the Nigerian ordi...I confess I am not familiar with the Nigerian ordinal for a bishop. Does it require that the candidate be faithful to all scripture except, "God hates a liar?" ::sigh::<BR/><BR/>FWIW<BR/>jimBJimBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17312606954135884910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-91852617870266177532007-12-08T13:06:00.000-05:002007-12-08T13:06:00.000-05:00to Christopher+: One really has to wonder what cau...to Christopher+: <I>One really has to wonder what causes Bishop Minns to devote so very, very much of his life and energy to "cleansing" the church of gay people</I><BR/><BR/>He's a friend of my dad's and I met him first in the early 80's (though I've not exchanged words with him since; I'm working off what my dad tells me). It's hard for me to wrap my head around, but he and most of these others (David Anderson I know well) really believe that saying homosexual behavior is not a sin leads to people spending eternity without God. <BR/><BR/>Which is worth splitting the church over, if it means keeping people out of hell. You do what it takes to get people out of a building you think is on fire. Yes, obviously there's political power and ambition involved; but there is also deep conviction.<BR/><BR/>Of course, those of us on the other side are equally convicted that this exclusionary, divisive activity is pulling more people away from a loving relationship with God than any mis-reading of Scripture does. The current pain is not worth it.<BR/><BR/>It comes down to, IMHO, whether you are focused on Heaven on earth, or Heaven after death at the price of hell on earth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-74056657690563588572007-12-08T09:22:00.000-05:002007-12-08T09:22:00.000-05:00Christian ethics - maybe you have a good understan...Christian ethics - maybe you have a good understanding RB, maybe you don't, but I would be interested if you would cite a source for the "60 churches and 100 priests" figure, ideally accompanied by a list of the churches and priests.<BR/><BR/>Nice post, Elizabeth. And, of course, fine post Fr. Harris. "Wolf's clothing" week, for sure.Lapinbizarrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686990585795363001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-66230736349182391682007-12-07T23:01:00.000-05:002007-12-07T23:01:00.000-05:00Anonymous in NJ - "Thriving?" Is that the word yo...Anonymous in NJ - "Thriving?" Is that the word you used to describe Trinity, Irvington under the Nigerian priest's. . . "leadership"? He practically killed House of Prayer, Newark and rendered St. Barnabas, Newark moribund with his arrogant, nose-bleed high pre-Tridentine mass which had absolutely no relevance with the lives of the people he was called to serve. <BR/><BR/>Let me repeat that last part, because it is the crux of the matter - that he was called to serve - not vice versa. <BR/><BR/>I have two Nigerian families in my congregation who know him - and Akinola - well and they wouldn't attend a church where this man led worship if you paid them. "Thriving?" Sure, and I've got a bridge to sell you in London. You might have some credibility if you identified yourself and gave some statistics and testimony.Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-87962475748737932872007-12-07T20:03:00.000-05:002007-12-07T20:03:00.000-05:00If it is true that there are now 60 churches and 1...If it is true that there are now 60 churches and 100 priests in CANA, then apparently someone is taking Bishop Minns as honorable, despite the slander here. I'm afraid I don't see the conflict between these two brief accounts, and if I was going to insinuate that someone was a liar, I would at least attempt to research and present the facts, which are certainly available. But then again, I'm not an Episcopal priest, and probably don't have a good understanding of Christian ethics.RBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16752701681681717163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-22143050515511038142007-12-07T17:17:00.000-05:002007-12-07T17:17:00.000-05:00I find the following quote of Bp. Minns' address e...I find the following quote of Bp. Minns' address either quite ironic or very disingeneous.<BR/><BR/>1. RELATIONAL – Each one of us needs to reach out!<BR/>When Jesus first called the disciples he called them into community. The New Testament<BR/>knows nothing of the radical individualism that dominates so much of our Western Culture.<BR/>When we become a Christian we become a member of the community of saints. It is a<BR/>community of radical inclusion where “There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor<BR/>female, [Nigerian or British, black or white, Yoruba or Igbo] for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”<BR/>(Gal. 3:28) It is in community where we recognize that we are all sinners saved by grace<BR/>alone! It is in community where we see Christ at work most clearly because he promised “For<BR/>where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them.” (Matt. 18:20)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-24249479814166231242007-12-07T16:25:00.000-05:002007-12-07T16:25:00.000-05:00Does anyone really expect we will take anything +M...Does anyone really expect we will take anything +Minns says as being honorable? The man has been a behind-the-scenes suck-em-up to Akinola and all-around TEC loser (+Diocese of Rio Grande for one...what did he plan to do with that Diocese? Make it The Anglican Church of Nigeria and steal that property?)...all his weak slurring and sloptalk about LGBT people being a threat to Nigerians (or anyone elses relationship with God) is hate/fear-mongering, discriminatory and plain stupid...one doesn't have to wonder what the personal power quest is when glancing at the "Adjusted History" +Minns of Nigeria is trying to promote as REAL.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-55026725799515981372007-12-07T16:05:00.000-05:002007-12-07T16:05:00.000-05:00Anonymous - Half-truths are no truths at all. Tha...Anonymous - Half-truths are no truths at all. That is the tactic of the Dark One. Willful misrepresentation is, in a word, a lie. Bsp Minns is a liar which is, as Mark said, unworthy of one in his position.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-4872953260367273642007-12-07T14:32:00.000-05:002007-12-07T14:32:00.000-05:00Well, Dan: there are quite a number of thriving a...Well, Dan: there are quite a number of thriving and growing parishes made up largely of gay parishioners and their friends. (See how easy it is to drop anecdotes into the conversation in order to "prove" something or other?)<BR/><BR/>More important to me, there are many, many gay people, and others, out there hungry for a Gospel, and for a spiritual life, that doesn't "thrive" on pandering to the majority and its particular dislikes.<BR/><BR/>I realize that for many, these people simply don't count and don't matter. For me and others, though, they do. <BR/><BR/>If you don't want gay people in your own church, you have - believe me - plenty of choices. Enjoy them, and stop trying to force your views on other people who simply want to live in peace and faith for a change.blshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07627725321531151309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-25526039637836687892007-12-07T10:11:00.000-05:002007-12-07T10:11:00.000-05:00(Dan)Check for yourself what happened in Irvington...(Dan)Check for yourself what happened in Irvington, NJ. An Anglican tent maker priest from Nigeria took a dead parish, infused it with life ane energy, built a thriving parish (immigrants and African Americans, primarily) and then got sacked by the bishop because the parish "needed" a full-time priest. He appoitned a gay black priest who promptly ran the parish back into the ground and the parish is closed. The Anglican priest started a new parish, under CANA, that is thriving. There is much truth in what Bishop Minns says and you need to face up to it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-24931322370315310622007-12-07T09:47:00.000-05:002007-12-07T09:47:00.000-05:00One really has to wonder what causes Bishop Minns ...One really has to wonder what causes Bishop Minns to devote so very, very much of his life and energy to "cleansing" the church of gay people.<BR/><BR/>Slightly more interesting, however, is the idea behind this tidbit from the CANA website:<BR/><BR/>"But, ECUSA proved over and over again that it was unwilling to respect the faith of Anglican Nigerians by its divisive actions." <BR/><BR/>Apparently to respect the faith of another (in the view of CANA's leadership) is to say and do only what THEY think is right (whether or not they are right). <BR/><BR/>Yes, I imagine that is indeed the way Bishop Minns likes things to be done - as long as it is his (version of) "faith" people are "respecting."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com