tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post7256712436559906121..comments2024-02-15T03:32:25.686-05:00Comments on Preludium, Anglican and Episcopal futures: GAFCON gaffs and the need to keep awake.Mark Harrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-21630763637726855442008-06-26T20:11:00.000-04:002008-06-26T20:11:00.000-04:00Ellie in T.O.Here in Mexico schoolmarms usually do...Ellie in T.O.<BR/><BR/>Here in Mexico schoolmarms usually do a better job of researching their topic before publishing their paper. Seems that you do quite a bit of your own revision.Brother Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333089314994730330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-60120766940620132012008-06-25T22:46:00.000-04:002008-06-25T22:46:00.000-04:00Allen,Once again, reality check.There were suppose...Allen,<BR/><BR/>Once again, reality check.<BR/><BR/>There were <I>supposed</I> to be 280 bishops at the conference, a substantial number of them <B>not in the Anglican Communion now.</B> The Gaffe attendance list, unlike those at Via Media and Integrity events is a well kept secret, so we do not know how many actually showed up. What we do know suggests that 280 is over-stated.<BR/><BR/>Consider that pre-gaffe, the number of English bishops we were told would be there ranged from 8 to 25, and in fact there seem to be three. Consider that a good many of the bishops that were claimed in advance were bishops from prior schisms. That is the were from entities like Province of Christ the King.<BR/><BR/>Now <I>I</I> will defend those men and say they are really bishops, but they are certainly not Anglicans who would "leave" as they are not inside the communion now. Other examples abound the Anglicans Missing In Action bishops are not in the communion, and cannot therefore leave. That is several more of the purported 280. <BR/><BR/>Indeed if Bp. Schofield is an example, the few who are leaving TEC with or without our boot print on their cassocks, at least claim they want a place <B>within</B> the communion. The clarion call of the arch-heretic of Nigeria for a new church was met, as near as we can tell <I>inside the gaffe</I> with less than enthusiasm.<BR/><BR/>I am sure some will leave. Some, like the sometime bishop of Pittsburgh, have no choice. Their actions have placed them outside and they will be deposed. But(!) hundreds? <BR/><BR/>I don't know how many sycophants +Akinola has ordained, but add those to the half dozen or so Americans who are likely to get invited out: +Fort Wayne, +Quincy, +Springfield (Illinois) and one or two others, toss in two or three Canadians, and probably zero English and you do not have a particularly long procession.<BR/><BR/>FWIW<BR/>jimBJimBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17312606954135884910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-61824715936140788092008-06-25T15:44:00.000-04:002008-06-25T15:44:00.000-04:00Ellie...thanks for the spelling correction.. maybe...Ellie...thanks for the spelling correction.. maybe. The spell checker didn't pick it up because there is of course a word gaff and in addition gaff is an alternative (admittedly a minor one) for gaffe. At any rate, never again, maybe.<BR/><BR/>On the matter of the revisionist or "my" track record, I have both little and lots to say. <BR/><BR/>The little: You are mostly wrong. The long term intention, clearly stated by most of those of us who in the so called "revisionist" crowd, is that we are working for full inclusion of all people both in the church and in the society. <BR/><BR/>The lot: I have lots to say about progressives being charged with telling lies, dissembling and misleading, but this is not the place and I am in poor humor to attempt an answer.Mark Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-23336324395139451072008-06-25T15:32:00.000-04:002008-06-25T15:32:00.000-04:00I too take back all the catty things I've said abo...I too take back all the catty things I've said about Ruth Gledhill after reading that article.<BR/><BR/>I'm not the least bit surprised to see that Ahmanson was there. He's footing the bill, after all.Counterlighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14345956180434795401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-22089691083765719292008-06-25T12:28:00.000-04:002008-06-25T12:28:00.000-04:00Yes, Allen...the same way all good Christians rush...Yes, Allen...the same way all good Christians rushed away from those revisionist churches in the 1960's who dared offer a place at God's table to non-whites. <BR/><BR/>Bet they're sorry now for having to shut their doors because everyone left.<BR/><BR/>Oh wait...it didn't happen that way, did it ?!Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10124314924693077453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-42411511763822597692008-06-25T11:23:00.000-04:002008-06-25T11:23:00.000-04:00Ruth Gledhill has just posted an amazing piece, re...Ruth Gledhill has just posted an amazing piece, revealing that Howard Ahmanson is present at GAFCON as a delegate. No point in my quoting or paraphrasing; read the original.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://timescolumns.typepad.com/gledhill/2008/06/whats-going-on.html" REL="nofollow">http://timescolumns.typepad.com/gledhill/2008/06/whats-going-on.html</A><BR/><BR/>I take back many of the "smart" comments I have made at Ms. Gledhill's expense in the past.Lapinbizarrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686990585795363001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-81686307272874346712008-06-25T09:43:00.000-04:002008-06-25T09:43:00.000-04:00Mark, first of all it's "gaffe" not "gaff". Sorry...Mark, first of all it's "gaffe" not "gaff". Sorry, but seeing you consistently misspell it brings out the schoolmarm in me. ;)<BR/><BR/>Second, if your goal is to understand the opposition, rather than merely snark at them, you revisionists really must examine your own track record. You believe your cause to be just, and this gives you a warm glow of righteousness and a feeling that the end justifies the means. But how might your actions seem to an outside observer?<BR/><BR/>Frank Griswold signed onto the Lambeth agreement in 1998 that said changing the definition of Christian marriage (which is what this is all about) would tear the fabric of the communion at its deepest level. Then he went home and set in motion the changes that would do just that. Katharine Schori agreed to the Dar es Salaam statement -- an account at the time had her weeping in frustration and reluctance as she did so. Yet later on she attempted to deny that she had agreed after all, to the incredulity of those who witnessed her doing so at Dar.<BR/><BR/>The revisionist position from the first has been that they were not going to change the definition of marriage -- "it's just a blessing" has been your constant refrain. Yet we see that the California dioceses have leaped on the gay marriage bandwagon without the slightest hesitation, while New Westminster has announced they are "studying the issue" with an obvious view to doing the same thing. Didn't these people sign onto the Windsor report, which called for a moratorium on all such acts? (And don't bring up the border crossing issue -- the orthodox bishops only promised not to do these without invitation, and even if they had in fact broken their word, is it any kind of argument to say "He's disobeying, so that means I can disobey too"? Would that work in a court of law?)<BR/><BR/>At the end of the day, can you honestly look on your tactics with a clear conscience? Can you say that you did not lie, dissemble, or mislead the orthodox about your true intentions? If they don't trust you, and don't want any more dialogue with you, why do you suppose that is?<BR/><BR/>- Ellie in T.O.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-70921191244992018522008-06-24T20:33:00.000-04:002008-06-24T20:33:00.000-04:00So what if hundreds of Anglican bishops are ready ...So what if hundreds of Anglican bishops are ready to leave the Communion? We are smarter than they are. It will all go away.<BR/>(Repeat 12 times and get 12 reappraiser bishops to say it along with you).<BR/><BR/>They are just a "few" who don't want to be with "us".<BR/><BR/>And "VOILA!"...all is well.<BR/><BR/>Take a look at the "small trickle":<BR/><BR/>http://www.gafcon.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=62&Itemid=29<BR/><BR/>Bet it won't go away.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-29645838573931278052008-06-24T10:54:00.000-04:002008-06-24T10:54:00.000-04:00Mr Gunn and Ms Russel, who are on a different cont...Mr Gunn and Ms Russel, who are on a different continent, must really be exceedingly wicked to merit this...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-77571403470652398722008-06-24T10:50:00.000-04:002008-06-24T10:50:00.000-04:00Gosh - these guys are so troublesome.....remind m...Gosh - these guys are so troublesome.....remind me, what did they do to "tear the fabric of the Communion" back in 2003?<BR/><BR/><BR/>Pls note the recentletter of the Archbishops of York and Canterbury (re the Dud at Barts)....the Archbishops say clergy can seek to persuade the Communion that Lambeth 1.10 is wrong...but cannot merely "disregard" agreed positions...not with integrity, that is. GAFCON exists because some clergy think they are free to merely "disregard" the bible and agreed Anglican Communion positions at will..... maybe a close eye should be kept on those who actually tore the fabric of the Communion??Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-30183675682244191562008-06-24T09:58:00.000-04:002008-06-24T09:58:00.000-04:00Mark,Your call to be awake, watchful and faithful ...Mark,<BR/><BR/>Your call to be awake, watchful and faithful ...and laugh--Yes! And thank you.<BR/><BR/>--margaretAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-34441068921413927002008-06-23T18:37:00.000-04:002008-06-23T18:37:00.000-04:00It will be interesting to see the positive spin th...It will be interesting to see the positive spin that will be foisted at the conclusion of General Convention '09. GAFCON may be stumbling around, but that GC will be the notorious beginning of the end for TEC. Wait til the smoke and mirrors tricks don't work on the average people in the pews. Wait until they see the full charge of SSBs beginning to appear in a Prayer Book revision. There won't be enough smoke to cover that mess as a mass exodus quickens. Not to worry, though. The vacated sold church properties will pay the considerable bills coming to TEC afterwards.<BR/><BR/>This is the only Church where it's alright to lose people by the hundreds and thousands so long as the revisionists get to continue to be at play.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com