tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post7439526626911791377..comments2024-02-15T03:32:25.686-05:00Comments on Preludium, Anglican and Episcopal futures: Nigeria ordains bishops for CANA, dumps on the Covenant, but who cares? Apparently not the Archbishop of Canterbury.Mark Harrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-31905252461130454062011-10-02T16:36:43.717-04:002011-10-02T16:36:43.717-04:00Mark said, “I believe the issue of accepting or no...Mark said, “I believe the issue of accepting or not accepting the Anglican Covenant is itself an exercise in being in communion with one another. Surely, disagreement about whether or not the AC is a good thing can not itself be a measure of whether or not one is IN the Anglican Communion? Sadly some think so, thus the strong objection to the Covenant.”<br /><br />The Archbishop of Canterbury has insisted, properly or not, that rejection of the Covenant does not put a church outside the Anglican Communion. Presumably, therefore, The Episcopal Church could decline to adopt the Covenant and remain a member in good standing of the Communion. (No doubt, some would argue otherwise.)<br /><br />I don’t think the Anglican Communion “bad,” but I do believe it has taken a wrong turn.<br /><br />Regarding what we might choose to do with the Covenant, it useful to contemplate the notion that “friends don’t let friends drive drunk.”<br /><br />Believing, as I do, that adoption of the Covenant is a colossal mistake that will exacerbate conflict among Communion churches rather than resolve them, adoption appears to be the analogue of getting into a car with a drunk driver to “demonstrate” one’s friendship.<br /><br />A true friend—a true Christian—on the other hand, takes away the keys and says “no,” risking impaired friendship, perhaps for a very long time. The alternative is likely to be very ugly indeed.<br /><br />The Episcopal Church should reject the Covenant and encourage other churches to do the same.Lionel Deimelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08363018512775944659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-35189719942165610682011-10-02T15:56:06.650-04:002011-10-02T15:56:06.650-04:00"in the head of it"? what i meant was &..."in the head of it"? what i meant was "on the face of it." Typing too fast too wild.Mark Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-82879591311956583292011-10-02T15:54:52.866-04:002011-10-02T15:54:52.866-04:00Anonymous...no it is not simple minded (sorry Lion...Anonymous...no it is not simple minded (sorry Lionel). But Lionel is right to push you over to the No Anglican Covenant site to look into it further.<br /><br />Of course it would seem on first look that any effort to keep churches in a mix together would be helpful, so if it takes an Anglican Covenant to do so, so be it. But the problem is that the Covenant is not part of the solution because it does not present itself as either a constitutional document (what constitutes the Anglican Communion and membership in it) or a canonical document (here is what we do about church discipline.) And yet in the end it is disciplinary without being constitutional.<br /><br />The most it can say about constitution is that Churches in the Anglican Communion participate in (i) the Lambeth Conference, (ii) the Anglican Consultative Council(ACC), and (iii) the Primates Meetings. And those Churches hold the office of the Archbishop of Canterbury in esteem (he presides at meetings of the three groups). The Covenant assumes the ACC determines membership in it and indirectly for the rest.<br /><br />But the Covenant moves directly into a defined method of dealing with Churches who are acting outside the norms (only partially spoken) of the whole. That method involves giving specific powers of investigation and recommendation to particular groups (the Standing Committee of the Anglican Communion and the Archbishop of Canterbury). The exercise of these powers limits the participation of church members in various activities.<br /><br />The end result is, as we have already seen, NOT "a means of re-establishing bonds of communion" but rather limiting precisely those occasions when members of various churches work together as Anglicans on a particular matter.<br /><br />In the head of it all your question may be called "simple minded" (you called it that yourself) but humility on your part is one thing, agreeing with you is another. <br /><br />I believe the issue of accepting or not accepting the Anglican Covenant is itself an exercise in being in communion with one another. Surely, disagreement about whether or not the AC is a good thing can not itself be a measure of whether or not one is IN the Anglican Communion? Sadly some think so, thus the strong objection to the Covenant.<br /><br />The Covenant has been packaged so that at least at first rejecting it looks like a decision to withdraw or otherwise give up on the Anglican Communion. Far from it. If the acceptance of the AC becomes a litmus test, then a number of Churches will fail, including it appears Nigeria, the Philippines, and perhaps us. We shall see.<br /><br />Go read deeper into the issues. Press forward.Mark Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-64694787327922348322011-10-01T17:40:23.384-04:002011-10-01T17:40:23.384-04:00“probably simple minded”
Right. Study the No Angl...“probably simple minded”<br /><br />Right. Study the <a href="noanglicancovenant.org" rel="nofollow">No Anglican Covenant</a> site.Lionel Deimelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08363018512775944659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-72868646618853406802011-10-01T17:34:05.082-04:002011-10-01T17:34:05.082-04:00I am a relative newcomer to the Episcopal Church a...I am a relative newcomer to the Episcopal Church and Anglican Communion, but I've noticed that glacially slow responses are one of the confounding problems that reduce opportunities for healing. In other times and places, allowing space for problems to work themselves out might have been a wise strategy. These days it allows small sections of documents like the Windsor Report to become the basis of martial law because a few "leaders" think they should be.<br /> <br />I dearly love the Anglican Communion and want the Episcopal Church to remain a fully participating member of it. But if we can't fully participate, I don't want to fund the meetings and ministries that marginalize our voices. <br /><br />Could an Anglican Covenant provide a means of re-establishing bonds of "communion"? If so, it's worth a try. I don't think it could hurt anything.<br /><br />probably simple mindedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-16683014956496337502011-10-01T09:00:01.507-04:002011-10-01T09:00:01.507-04:00The reality is that the Anglican Communion is dysf...The reality is that the Anglican Communion is dysfunctional, with or without the Covenant, and it is likely to remain so. The Episcopal Church cannot fix this, but it can try to limit the damage to itself.Lionel Deimelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08363018512775944659noreply@blogger.com