tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post8214716551951292421..comments2024-02-15T03:32:25.686-05:00Comments on Preludium, Anglican and Episcopal futures: Subject to Accountability: The Rev. Don Armstrong and the terror. (revised)Mark Harrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-51395801969385358992007-03-31T19:11:00.000-04:002007-03-31T19:11:00.000-04:00Hatchet job?Where have I heard that before?Oh yeah...Hatchet job?<BR/><BR/>Where have I heard that before?<BR/><BR/>Oh yeah, when a certain Colorado Springs megachurch CEO was accused of consorting with a rentboy and snorting crank, a number of important people, including one Donald Armstrong, rushed forward and angrily declared that The Gays were attempting to destroy this Godly man because he had fought so effectively against their evil agenda.<BR/><BR/>Then it turned out that the good reverend really did have a thing for hookers and crystal.<BR/><BR/>There is no way for us to know whether Armstrong is guilty or not, a situation that he has ensured by jumping ship, but it is simply foolish to argue that he must be innocent because he is "orthodox."<BR/><BR/>The previous rector at my parish, who was so "orthodox" that he made the Southern Baptists seem broadminded and reasonable by comparison, turned out to have been looting the place for years. Predictably, when he got caught, he claimed persecution. Many people left the parish, some because they believed him and others because they were disgusted at having been robbed for so long by a pious hypocrite.<BR/><BR/>As I said, all this sounds very familiar.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-2952628928995698912007-03-31T12:04:00.000-04:002007-03-31T12:04:00.000-04:00I can say "hatchet job" is an hysterical over-reac...I can say "hatchet job" is an hysterical over-reaction.<BR/><BR/>If the good Father stayed, he'd have had his day to face the presentment charges, but he left. That just leaves questions, and we'll all have to live with that.<BR/><BR/>He'll likely get a chance to have his day over the tax issue. And, he is presumed innocent in that matter until proven guilty. Only time will tell.episcopalifemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18092579249862725163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-18144951312781455892007-03-30T21:47:00.000-04:002007-03-30T21:47:00.000-04:00This can be bad in two ways. Fr. Armstrong wrote ...This can be bad in two ways. Fr. Armstrong wrote his parish to give "his" side. He notes that the actual report accusing him of Tax Fraud has not looked at his taxes. Here is the appropriate part of his letter: "For example, what is known as the Betzer Report suggests that I did not declare the value of my church provided housing and fees for weddings and funerals on my taxes, but that assumption is footnoted indicating that they did not have access to my taxes to confirm their accusation."<BR/>You can read the whole letter at:<BR/>http://titusonenine.classicalanglican.net/?p=18557#comments<BR/><BR/>If Fr. Armstrong is lying then he should be punished and I would hope that Mimms will discipline him. If Bishop O'Neill is lying (or leading a massively trumped up charge) then I would hope that the HOB would discipline him.<BR/><BR/>I do not put it past any clergy to be trapped by false financial dealing. My wife was the treasurer when the parish priest got caught with his hand in the cookie jar and it is unpleasant. I also know that the way this has been handled for the past year has been very bad and looked very bad in the eyes of the reasserters. Hopefully we will know the answer soon enough.<BR/><BR/>YBIC,<BR/>Phil Snyderplsdeaconhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18039800243898137584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-89706607743938962322007-03-30T16:35:00.000-04:002007-03-30T16:35:00.000-04:00"there are still issues that might well involve th..."there are still issues that might well involve the civil authorities, particularly involving tax matters"<BR/>And Fr. Armstrong is so anxious about the validity of such charges that he asked the IRS to audit his federal tax returns for compliance!<BR/>Can you say hatchet job?<BR/>DanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-3319343929742801112007-03-30T13:52:00.000-04:002007-03-30T13:52:00.000-04:00oddly enough, I find myself agreeing with +Doug. A...oddly enough, I find myself agreeing with +Doug. Armstrong is innocent until proven guilty. his timing in leaving the church was a bad PR move at best, but we still need to wait for the decision of the trial.<BR/><BR/>and before that decision comes, we should all remember that, as my priest said, schadenfreude is good for nobody's soul.Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17851789276439393822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-79298331847604838902007-03-29T16:05:00.000-04:002007-03-29T16:05:00.000-04:00I have argued elsewhere that liberals and conserva...I have argued <A HREF="http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/2697/#43155" REL="nofollow">elsewhere</A> that liberals and conservatives alike should be able to agree that this is a situation where we need to allow time for the facts to come out before we pass judgement on either the allegations against Fr. Armstrong or the methods of Bp. O'Neill.<BR/><BR/>It is disappointing, then, to find that Fr. Armstrong has decided to remove himself from Bp. O'Neill's authority, rather than using the opportunity to present his defence against the charges specified in the presentment.<BR/><BR/>I would still maintain that we don't know enough to pass judgement. But I do have to admit that Fr. Armstrong's apparent refusal to allow the charges to be ajudicated is not a move that will build confidence in his innocence.Sailorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05185068601066087185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-42008376170459122092007-03-29T12:13:00.000-04:002007-03-29T12:13:00.000-04:00C.B.Based on my reading of the charges, there are ...C.B.<BR/><BR/>Based on my reading of the charges, there are still issues that might well involve the civil authorities, particularly involving tax matters. CANA will not be able to offer safe haven from these.Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07474786207149076221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-53345529809107015862007-03-29T10:29:00.000-04:002007-03-29T10:29:00.000-04:00c.b., in these wild and wacky times I'm not sure w...c.b., in these wild and wacky times I'm not sure what might come out of all this, apart from criminal proceedings if the allegations of tax fraud are accurate. Part of the confusion comes from the legality of Don's "transfer" to CANA. Normally canons require letters dimissory to effect such a transfer, attesting the transferring priest to be in good standing with no overhanging allegations. If Don wishes to renounce his orders (in a "voluntary submission to discipline" or otherwise) that's a different matter. The whole thing is a cloud of unknowing -- the bad kind.Tobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-76142649631936340952007-03-29T04:06:00.000-04:002007-03-29T04:06:00.000-04:00It would appear that Anderson is a bit confused as...It would appear that Anderson is a bit confused as to whom has the deep pockets.-frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15065107773031033288noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-43758808494679353312007-03-28T22:46:00.000-04:002007-03-28T22:46:00.000-04:00tobias says presentment appears forthcoming. But ...tobias says presentment appears forthcoming. But if Armstrong has left the church - the only thing that will be presented are the charges. There will be no hearing, no airing of evidence unless it is done without Armstrong's participation. Is that correct? Is that likely? I am concerned for two reasons. One, without a look at all the charges and supporting evidence, the case will forever be clouded(which may be what Armstrong intends), but also if the charges can be substantiated then it casts a very dim light on Minns' judgment and CANA. I light that might give even some conservatives pause.C.B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17691002620980933111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-89082524390527249662007-03-28T22:36:00.000-04:002007-03-28T22:36:00.000-04:00Tobias... the link is in the body of the text.Anne...Tobias... the link is in the body of the text.<BR/>Anne: Say more. I know the difference and I don't think the post does. There is at least one connection between the two: both clergy now are members of the Church of Nigeria.<BR/>BTW, I presume you are the bigger of the two... cute kid. Nice picture.Mark Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-82348175168098601072007-03-28T21:25:00.000-04:002007-03-28T21:25:00.000-04:00Mark, David Anderson is the president of the AAC.....Mark, <BR/><BR/>David Anderson is the president of the AAC...Don Armstrong+ is the president of the ACI (Drs Radner, Seitz et al). Big difference.Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06944928044277724293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-4917581604794716342007-03-28T17:42:00.000-04:002007-03-28T17:42:00.000-04:00I appears a presentment is forthcoming, and the na...I appears a presentment is forthcoming, and the nature of the charges involve very large sums. See the <A HREF="http://www2.gazette.com/other/graceepiscopal.pdf" REL="nofollow">letter from the Bishop of Colorado.</A>Tobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.com