tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post837202971340856669..comments2024-02-15T03:32:25.686-05:00Comments on Preludium, Anglican and Episcopal futures: A Three Video Defense of the Anglican CovenantMark Harrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-55427109053763427662012-02-28T22:00:48.529-05:002012-02-28T22:00:48.529-05:00I'm afraid I don't understand Msgr's c...I'm afraid I don't understand Msgr's comment at all. How would the canonical situation in TEC affect things re: the covenant? My understanding is that the Covenant has no authority and claims no authority over TEC's constitutions and canons. What am I missing here?Puzzlednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-69808560419761378162012-02-24T13:42:51.168-05:002012-02-24T13:42:51.168-05:00Since the canons of TEC indicate that marriage is ...Since the canons of TEC indicate that marriage is between a man and woman;<br /><br />and since the BCP remains a constitutional document,<br /><br />If TEC seeks to change these matters, and it has adopted the covenant, it cannot simply assume that Grieb's optimism would go unchallenged.<br /><br /><br />Msgrmsgrnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-16344917195221355042012-02-23T23:23:36.744-05:002012-02-23T23:23:36.744-05:00These videos are hardly going viral, are they? 142...These videos are hardly going viral, are they? 142, 100 and 218 views, respectively. Out of, what, 70-odd million Anglicans?<br /><br />It would be nice to read of some pro-Covenant argument that actually references the text.Alan T Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11700037716579004059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-56639177698724320212012-02-23T14:19:29.291-05:002012-02-23T14:19:29.291-05:00Dr Grieb speaks quite generously of the covenant f...Dr Grieb speaks quite generously of the covenant from her 'crucified place' on the committee.June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-84080204662276112142012-02-23T11:46:11.552-05:002012-02-23T11:46:11.552-05:00The Anglican Covenant is just bad legislation! It...The Anglican Covenant is just bad legislation! It is too loose of a document to not be dangerous for any of the signatories including the C of E. <br /><br />And to have the Archbishop of Canterbury to have de jure authority as an Instrument of Unity over the various churches in the Communion goes against everything that the Communion has stood for.<br /><br />Just because these videos say that the AC is the 'only way' doesn't make it so.Muthah+https://www.blogger.com/profile/10589837671378205837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-33428427419785270762012-02-23T11:30:17.649-05:002012-02-23T11:30:17.649-05:00It was not clear to me just what Professor Grieb w...It was not clear to me just what Professor Grieb would have us do, but I must assume that she supports adoption. Personally, I would like to hear from some of the “many progressives who are interested in endorsing the Anglican Communion Covenant.”<br /><br />I am coming to think that, since Episcopalians are being removed from or their status downgraded in Anglican bodies anyway, that we should (1) reject the Covenant and (2) stop supporting the Communion financially and participating in Communion-wide activities. Let the other churches work things out . We can reconsider our status in 2015.<br /><br />We have spent at least the last 15 years fighting the forces of reaction, both within and without The Episcopal Church. This is not what church is for. We clearly have more important things to do. Let’s do them.Lionel Deimelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08363018512775944659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-17984430925082163642012-02-23T09:23:43.976-05:002012-02-23T09:23:43.976-05:00I have long thought the PAC would only make de jur...I have long thought the PAC would only make de jure what is now de facto, with the divisions being made official, either through TEC's expulsion or relegation to a second tier, or, if the powers that be declined to that, the further withdrawal of the members of GAFCON. I think the recent votes in England indicate that there are many who see this particular covenant document as unhelpful or worse. Whatever the GC decides this summer, I pray no one will be thrown under the bus and that, if we must stand in a crucified place, we will do it together.Daniel Weirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11430381764138066595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-76254942801651285882012-02-23T09:13:44.249-05:002012-02-23T09:13:44.249-05:00Smells of desperation to me.
And, tell me again ...Smells of desperation to me. <br /><br />And, tell me again why we are funding the ACC and our money is being used for this sort of shameful, desperate propaganda?Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-35463494295215992892012-02-23T08:52:01.676-05:002012-02-23T08:52:01.676-05:00To sign would be to assent to a series of statemen...To sign would be to assent to a series of statements that oppose everything Anglican - the room to try things yet still work together for the reign of God now. From beginning to end the Covenant spells out a church I do not recognize as the one I have known since birth.Annhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07287169546184325690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-62132053866509764262012-02-22T19:38:01.719-05:002012-02-22T19:38:01.719-05:00When Professor Grieb says “. . .work things out in...When Professor Grieb says “. . .work things out in ways that are acceptable to everyone” the only thing I hear is condemnation, swift and loud, from Southern Cone provinces. <br /><br />I have been at this “dialog” long enough to know that the only acceptable way this works out for those provinces is for TEC and ACoC to “repent” of what has they’ve already done and undo it, regarding gay and lesbian bishops, same-sex blessings, and, for some provinces, ordination of women and the elevation of women to the bishopric and even presiding bishop. That would be the only acceptable outcome for most of the Southern Cone and the only action that might entice the GAFCON provinces back into the fold.<br /><br />There is no middle ground to be found and we’ve spent many a long year learning that fact. Yet here we are, again, being asked to “stand in a crucified place” while humiliating and stultifying compromises are made for those who will never accept women in the priesthood, LGBTQ Christians as full members of the church, and interpretation of scripture outside of the “faith once-received” worldview.<br /><br />We are truly damned if we do and damned if we don’t, at least in the eyes of our critics. I see no way through this mire and I appreciate your voice Mark. How far will TEC be willing to go, how many members will we be willing to throw under the unity bus, how much ground will we give up, and how far back in time will be willing to go to “right” our “wrongs” in their eyes? Nothing less will do, you know.Briannoreply@blogger.com