tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post8743798055161528841..comments2024-02-15T03:32:25.686-05:00Comments on Preludium, Anglican and Episcopal futures: Fort Worth Bishop and Standing Committee speak their mind.Mark Harrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-82302138262119374662007-06-05T23:55:00.000-04:002007-06-05T23:55:00.000-04:00Ouch!! ... I'm so glad I'm not bumping into you gu...Ouch!! ... I'm so glad I'm not bumping into you guys in a dark alley!<BR/><BR/>I think that simply the fact that I happen to be in the Diocese of Fort Worth and don't really have a problem with being here, somehow that is tantamount to treason for you guys outside our diocese.<BR/><BR/>As far as "missionary work" by the TEC in the Diocese of Fort Worth, I just wish you guys would leave us alone -- unless of course, you wish to join us the next time we head to the night shelter or something. In that case, by all means come alone! We can always use extra hands serving the poor and needy right here at home.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-53097194815440462032007-05-25T01:35:00.000-04:002007-05-25T01:35:00.000-04:00My only personal experience with Bishop Iker was t...My only personal experience with Bishop Iker was that when I asked him a question through email , "Are you planning on leaving the Episcopal Church," a genuine question on my part, was responded to with the words, and I quote, "YOUR QUESTION IS SARCASTIC."<BR/><BR/>It turns out he WAS PLANNING ON LEAVING, REFER TO THE APO DOCUMENT RELEASED BY THE DIOCESE OF FORT WORTH MAY 16th.<BR/><BR/>AT LEAST ONE CHURCH IN THE DIOCESE HAS THE GUTS TO STAND UP TO THIS (TRINITY). Here is the Resolution they passed on May 19th:<BR/>http://www.fortworthtrinity.org/vestry%20response.htm<BR/><BR/>Resolution of the Vestry - 05/19/07<BR/><BR/>The Vestry of Trinity Episcopal Church wishes to express its profound disagreement with the actions of the Executive Council taken on May 16, 2007, concerning alternative primatial oversight.<BR/><BR/>Trinity Episcopal Church, while affirming its place in the Diocese of Ft. Worth and in the Protestant Episcopal Church of the United States of America, does not support any search for forming a new Anglican Province. Trinity Episcopal Church does not support transferring to another existing province of the Anglican Communion. Trinity Episcopal Church does not support seeking the status of an extra-provincial diocese. Trinity Episcopal Church affirms the place of the Diocese of Fort Worth in the Protestant Episcopal Church of the United States of America. <BR/><BR/>It looks like Bishop Iker won't take the WHOLE DIOCESE with him when he leaves the Episcopal Church after all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-70162339954437787182007-05-18T08:12:00.000-04:002007-05-18T08:12:00.000-04:00The last thing we need is a presentment that won't...The last thing we need is a presentment that won't stick. This is the endgame. Pieces should be moved carefully into place to ensure checkmate. Otherwise stalemate results. Which means thirty more years of destructive conflict.<BR/><BR/>I reject the criterion of church growth, as well as the analysis that our understanding of the Gospel is responsible for lack of growth or decline. What has happened is that we have lost those who once felt compelled to go to church for cultural reasons. Christendom was never a good model. It's gone and we should embrace that fact. Others we have lost because of social conflicts in the church. Many churches that preach an inclusive Gospel are growing in numbers. But growing in faithfulness to Christ is what really matters. And all churches that get off the fence and embrace the lives and ministries of lgbt people have grown in that way and in many cases in numbers as well.<BR/><BR/>I predict that we will grow in both numbers and faithfulness when we have a coherent sense of our own identity as a progressive, liturgical, non-papal Catholic, and reformed Church, which is exactly the direction that the Prayer Book points us.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-3131685861851779602007-05-17T21:58:00.000-04:002007-05-17T21:58:00.000-04:00muthah+ said... Personally, I believe that it is t...muthah+ said... <BR/>Personally, I believe that it is time for TEC to begin missionary <BR/><BR/>I had to laugh at that one - what gospel does TEC have that it really believes will have a snow balls chance in hell of gaining any converts? It is going backwards in most other parts of the country, why should its mission be anymore succesful in Ft Worth.<BR/><BR/>Brian FAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-51657362629103692732007-05-17T18:31:00.000-04:002007-05-17T18:31:00.000-04:00Personally, I believe that it is time for TEC to b...Personally, I believe that it is time for TEC to begin missionary <BR/>work in the Diocese of FT. Worth. Of course, Iker should not have been consecrated, bill. We did every thing we could to keep him from being consecrated. But the Gospel of inclusivity has never played in that diocese since it's inception. It has been isolated for 30 years and we have allowed it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-9980792011027730562007-05-17T09:34:00.000-04:002007-05-17T09:34:00.000-04:00For C.B. Here is article 1 of their constitution....For C.B. Here is article 1 of their constitution. The interesting part is they grant authority to TEC only in so far as it is "orthodox" The question is who gets to decide that. TEC's GC or their GC. I think this will end up in the civil court. Some states leave the decision on to the highest judicatory of the denomination. Others will refuse to get inolved in theo. and use neutral principles of law. I don't know TX. But, here is Artcle 1 Maybe others know:<BR/><BR/>"AUTHORITY OF GENERAL CONVENTION <BR/>The Church in this Diocese accedes to the Constitution and Canons of The Episcopal Church, and recognizes the authority of the General Convention of said Church provided that no action of General Convention which is contrary to Holy Scripture and the Apostolic Teaching of the Church shall be of any force or effect in this Diocese."<BR/><BR/>From TEC's point of view, it might be time to bring the action and declare the office of bishop open etc but I don't if that would be in its best interest as viewed from the point of view of the Communion. Maybe others more savy than I have thoughts<BR/> EPfizHAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-84946892150188808872007-05-17T06:51:00.000-04:002007-05-17T06:51:00.000-04:00It would seem that at a minimum they have refused ...It would seem that at a minimum they have refused to come under the polity of TEC. Refused the authority of the PB. Is that actionable?C.B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17691002620980933111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-30662136975043616492007-05-17T06:37:00.000-04:002007-05-17T06:37:00.000-04:00They've been gone for some time. Consent should ...They've been gone for some time. Consent should have been denied to Bishop Iker's election. This provides a lesson for the Mark Lawrence affair, but I fear he will receive consents the second time.<BR/><BR/>I think that this statement falls short of grounds for a presentment, since it is (carefully) framed as deliberations about away forward, but that the Presiding Bishop and her Chancellor should issue a very stern public warning about the consequences of some of the proposed courses of action and then follow through swiftly should it become necessary. Anyone who has watched Ft. Worth knows that its not if but when, barring an exceptional intervention of the Holy Spirit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-9248217635201303042007-05-17T00:58:00.000-04:002007-05-17T00:58:00.000-04:00Presumably a presentment is in the works?Presumably a presentment is in the works?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-7991090598698039872007-05-16T22:18:00.000-04:002007-05-16T22:18:00.000-04:00Is this missive considered actionable by the Execu...Is this missive considered actionable by the Executive Committee of the Episcopal Church? What more would be needed if it is, alas, not?The Anglican Scotisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09715779952262032127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-84778969861969508422007-05-16T19:19:00.000-04:002007-05-16T19:19:00.000-04:00"We do not wish to be affiliated with her, nor wit..."We do not wish to be affiliated with her, nor with anyone she may appoint or designate to act on her behalf." <BR/><BR/>It's one thing, that they feel this way.<BR/><BR/>It's another thing, that they believe that this is <I>remotely</I> a *Christian* position to take!<BR/><BR/>What kind of "GeeZus" do they worship in FW, anyway? :-/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com