tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post279365190538093204..comments2024-02-15T03:32:25.686-05:00Comments on Preludium, Anglican and Episcopal futures: Inhibitions, abandonment and release.Mark Harrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-42593608159443090882007-07-23T09:57:00.000-04:002007-07-23T09:57:00.000-04:00As too insurance, this seems very much like the de...As too insurance, this seems very much like the departing clergy and congregations wanting to have their cake and eat it too.<BR/><BR/>In the Dio. of Virginia, does the diocese pay the employer share, or does the parish? When I was a warden in the Dio. of Massachusetts (10 years ago), the parish paid the employer share (which was 100%). If this is the case in Virginia, it would not be that difficult for the parishes to switch from the diocesan plan to a new CANA plan, and given the 40 days of discernment and the long lead-up to the actual split, there was plenty of time to set up a CANA plan.<BR/><BR/>If the diocese was paying the employer share, then how can these clergy have any claim for coverage after leaving the diocese? Maybe they should have considered the implications before resigning.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-46911573882383591532007-07-22T17:55:00.000-04:002007-07-22T17:55:00.000-04:00On the issue of insurance...I reviewed the website...On the issue of insurance...I reviewed the website of CANA to which most of these individuals went. It said, at the time, that all CANA clergy would be covered by their congregations. It was then a great surprise to me that +Minns was upset about the failure of the Diocese of Virginia to accept responsibility and insure COBRA coverage. There were only a couple of possibilities:<BR/><BR/>1. CANA was being less than honest with its clergy assuring them of coverage by their congregations.<BR/><BR/>2. CANA was ill-informed about the insurance issues and incompetent<BR/><BR/>In neither of the above cases does CANA look professional. +Minn's anger and affront that Dio Virginia did not cover its error was, to me, appalling. EPfizHAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-48627495453883512132007-07-21T00:44:00.000-04:002007-07-21T00:44:00.000-04:00LA Priest, did Cranmer demand that Clement VII kee...LA Priest, did Cranmer demand that Clement VII keep paying him? I seem to have missed that part.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-69421131267244030892007-07-21T00:33:00.000-04:002007-07-21T00:33:00.000-04:00Surely Howard Ahmanson can pay for their insurance...Surely Howard Ahmanson can pay for their insurance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-15785365260550598292007-07-19T16:21:00.000-04:002007-07-19T16:21:00.000-04:00When did the parishes officially declare themselve...When did the parishes officially declare themselves not part of the diocese?<BR/><BR/>JonJonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13323740465436735706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-20905210128973870012007-07-19T09:36:00.000-04:002007-07-19T09:36:00.000-04:00Jon:Have you ever dealt with employee benefits? Th...Jon:<BR/><BR/>Have you ever dealt with employee benefits? They need real hard numbers & will not deal with guesses, thus on the business side it would be February at the first available. So "thought of," yes, could do with world's restraints is another story.<BR/><BR/>Not trying to talk down to folks, but it's occurring to me the radical difference between my employment and churches -- COBRA means employee would pay full amount, so if it's a typical 80%/20% plan say $400.00 a month for a single person than normally $20 would taken out of each weeks check (pre-tax) and the rest the employer covers -- COBRA I'd get the full bill of $400.00 each month. The big issue is pre-existing conditions more than just coverage (you can get one month policies yourself if needed), people I knew who COBRA-ed had surgery. <BR/><BR/>The issue was DioVA didn't offer to COBRA to continue for one month - thus most of January was former employees where uninsured and other who had any pre-existing conditions will have to wait at least another month in not six for that issue to be covered. It was not too much of a surprise and many admins took their children to dentist, physicians & whatever in December fearing DioVA would use their exemption to be petty - again the moral ought. <BR/><BR/>DioVA did a back track at the VERY end of the month, which is legally smart since they filed law suits -- if a jury trial, the jury would more likely be persuaded by issues they can understand, as in insurance and not offering the same protection as the law usually requires, than complex property law which they not fully comprehend.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00261766465382455822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-40931085203637634512007-07-18T22:11:00.000-04:002007-07-18T22:11:00.000-04:00Um, when did these priests and parishes decide to ...Um, when did these priests and parishes decide to leave the Dio. of Va.? How long after that did the diocese stop providing them insurance? Did no one in those parishes think to switch their insurance provider from TEC to a provider of their choice when they voted to leave?<BR/><BR/>JonJonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13323740465436735706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-74018721413233427502007-07-18T21:23:00.000-04:002007-07-18T21:23:00.000-04:00It is very rich for TEC to appeal to ancient canon...It is very rich for TEC to appeal to ancient canons so very selectively. Also, the continued snide remarks about departing clergy violating their vows shows willful amnesia regarding Anglican history from Cranmer through at least the Wesley brothers. Sometimes people follow their consciences and they have to act against the rules. Your camp does so as well and that is what has us in the mess where we lob rocks at each other rather than working together.<BR/><BR/>God bless y'all.<BR/><BR/>LA priestAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-73110246301772593012007-07-18T16:27:00.000-04:002007-07-18T16:27:00.000-04:00jimB:You never work with benefits in corporate way...jimB:<BR/><BR/>You never work with benefits in corporate way in the average shmuck world, have you?<BR/><BR/>1) Religious organizations are apparently exempt from COBRA laws (though there is the ethical <I>ought</I> even if legal <I>must</I> is not required).<BR/><BR/>2) Your Bank example, if a benefit is offered that it is compulsory for all, if you leave that bank a COBRA offer must be extended before the insurance is dropped, by law.<BR/><BR/>2a -- This if you worked for a bank and left for another bank's employment but had that heart surgery a year ago, I sure hope you would COBRA your old insurance for most policies have a six month to a year pre-existing condition clause and your follow up cardiologist visits would be uninsured.<BR/><BR/>3. I'm not sure if I'd go with BB making things up just yet, for I have been responsible for employee benefits for small business and had to deal with all many of these headaches and my experience suggest the plank may be in your eye on this one & you are making stuff up.<BR/><BR/>Pax<BR/>KevinKevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00261766465382455822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-46808631515961828852007-07-17T16:48:00.000-04:002007-07-17T16:48:00.000-04:00Fr. Mark,A couple thoughts:1) Babyblue has been c...Fr. Mark,<BR/><BR/>A couple thoughts:<BR/><BR/>1) Babyblue has been caught out before -- witness comments about a hierarchical church. I understand you like the lady, but she is in the same place as the four fury bishops, she makes things up. <BR/><BR/>2) If I resign from a job in a bank, and go to work for another bank, no one expects the first one to continue my insurance. <BR/><BR/>3) No one is "cut off" there is COBRA, and Babyblue either knows that or with any intellectual honesty applied, should know it. The idea that TEC owes insurance to those who work against it is simply dishonest. Which I suppose gets me back to point 1.<BR/><BR/>FWIW<BR/>jimBJimBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17312606954135884910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-29131429455118103192007-07-17T07:39:00.000-04:002007-07-17T07:39:00.000-04:00A not about COBRA -- The DioVA apparently is exemp...A not about COBRA -- The DioVA apparently is exempt from that federal law and they used their exemption. This was noted several communications from +Minns that have been published. At the DioVA convention they decided to extent health coverage till the end of January, the convention was January 26-28. Thus creating a mess of backdating and did nothing to help an admin who had a kid she desired to take to the doctor on January 15. <BR/><BR/>Overall a very poor witness from the diocese of Virginia, the rest of the UD, including some of my bosses who at times can be real jerks, are required to show more mercy.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00261766465382455822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-67870400095683442642007-07-16T23:13:00.000-04:002007-07-16T23:13:00.000-04:00P.S. Mark, you and your family have a safe and won...P.S. Mark, you and your family have a safe and wonderful trip.June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-11734076569774512462007-07-16T22:45:00.000-04:002007-07-16T22:45:00.000-04:00The answer regarding the alleged abandonment of th...The answer regarding the alleged abandonment of the departing clergy by the diocesan health insurance were given months ago in a discussion on Thinking Anglicans about just this matter. To bring it up again, and make us go over it all again is gratuitous. Someone better than me, feel free to search TA and find the discussion, with the facts of COBRA and the restrictions the diocese with regard to health insurance as well as the possibilities for the clergy themselves. <BR/>Lois KeenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-18284986155073715922007-07-16T21:11:00.000-04:002007-07-16T21:11:00.000-04:00Tobias, I see that your inner copy editor was AWOL...Tobias, I see that your inner copy editor was AWOL again.<BR/><BR/>Communion is communion is communion is communion. <BR/><BR/>With apologies to Gertrude Stein.<BR/><BR/>Mark, I know yours is a <B>serious</B> blog, but I could not help myself. Please forgive me.June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-23691285320971158322007-07-16T18:34:00.000-04:002007-07-16T18:34:00.000-04:00'Being without health insurance is no big deal. Ju...'Being without health insurance is no big deal. Just ask President Bush. “I mean, people have access to health care in America,” he said last week. “After all, you just go to an emergency room.”'<BR/><BR/>etc.:<BR/>http://wealthyfrenchman.blogspot.com/2007/07/waiting-game.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-16526206936412485932007-07-16T16:47:00.000-04:002007-07-16T16:47:00.000-04:00Just a note about these priests being cut off from...Just a note about these priests being cut off from their health insurance - I'm sure arrangements can be made for them to be covered under COBRA, paid for by themselves at whatever cost their churches were paying for them. I doubt they'll be left with no health insurance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-36970377488156952552007-07-16T15:57:00.000-04:002007-07-16T15:57:00.000-04:00t it. If they have left TEC for other provinces --...t it. If they have left TEC for other provinces -- and their own statements claim that they have -- did they not arrange for health insurance from the Province of Nigeria? And, if not, why not?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01005537995315440769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-16812664123251849872007-07-16T15:41:00.000-04:002007-07-16T15:41:00.000-04:00BabyBlue knows full well what the "this" refers to...BabyBlue knows full well what the "this" refers to and so do those who chose/choose to leave. Writing such inflamatory and dishonest things is only destructive and so bears no honor to the Gospel of Jesus Christ that we proclaim.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-74432909368247262682007-07-16T13:54:00.000-04:002007-07-16T13:54:00.000-04:00Thanks for this reminder, Fr. Mark.Thanks for this reminder, Fr. Mark.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-62393415719244387782007-07-16T12:14:00.000-04:002007-07-16T12:14:00.000-04:00"As far as I know no Province is requiring that cl..."As far as I know no Province is requiring that clergy coming in from another part of the Anglican Communion be re-ordained."<BR/><BR/>This presents an interesting possibility. What if a priest or deacon was ordained by a bishop who approved of the ordination of VGR? Or who laid hands on VGR? And what if Robinson himself ordained them? According to the prevailing position among the conservatives, all of this makes a cleric a sinner and hence unsuitable for administering the sacraments.Ormonde Platerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05145096672539029672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-18034154262281068072007-07-16T11:48:00.000-04:002007-07-16T11:48:00.000-04:00Without letters dimissory from the Diocese of Virg...Without letters dimissory from the Diocese of Virginia, by ancient canon, these clergy should not be able to become resident any where else. Furthermore, also by ancient canon, the depositions would be recognized by all other dioceses.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-30882834512902220252007-07-16T11:07:00.000-04:002007-07-16T11:07:00.000-04:00Thanks for pikcing up on this, Mark. I've noticed ...Thanks for pikcing up on this, Mark. I've noticed a tendency on the part of some of the disaffected to elide or eliminate the references to "this Church" and to profess their allegiance to the Church of All Outdoors rather than the one to which they gave their Oath, and in and by which they were ordained.Tobias Stanislas Haller BSGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08047429477181560685noreply@blogger.com