tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post2834600279428922190..comments2024-02-15T03:32:25.686-05:00Comments on Preludium, Anglican and Episcopal futures: The Anglican Communion Institute on Patient EnduranceMark Harrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-71430092238226267722009-01-06T08:36:00.000-05:002009-01-06T08:36:00.000-05:00Just a few comments:Rot. The charge of being part ...Just a few comments:<BR/><BR/><I>Rot. The charge of being part of the culture is simplistic and to a large extent simply wrong.</I><BR/><BR/>Meaning that to a certain extent it is actually true, though overly simplistic? Your refutation seems to lack a certain clarity or conviction.<BR/><BR/><I>The outcome will be a sizable new world wide Anglican-like body, but one which will fracture within itself over purity issues.</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, this is frequently predicted by the progressives. I think this new province owes a lot to these voices, in continually pointing out this danger. The fact that they have actually pulled a number of disparate groups together is quite remarkable, and may owe a lot to their opponents' expectation that they will fracture "over purity issues." I hope at some point they will give credit where credit is due.RBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16752701681681717163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-47199769163992787632009-01-05T23:22:00.000-05:002009-01-05T23:22:00.000-05:00Mark down this day. I agree with Observer.FWIW, I ...Mark down this day. I agree with Observer.<BR/><BR/>FWIW, I think there are two further points to note. One is that the goal of making the Episcopal Church a place that is unwelcoming to gays and is generally ruled by a legalistic reading of scripture, and a confessional approach to faith (if that is not an oxymoron) has not been abandoned. What the paper suggests is a shift of tactics from an aggressive posture to one of quiet, patient witness, coupled with an intensification of efforts to recruit more members to their ideological postion through education efforts. In other words, they have recognized that they don't have the critical mass to control the agenda, and that the previous aggressive tactics haven't worked. So they're advocating cooling down the rhetoric and working on gaining the necessary critical mass. Better than filing losing lawsuits (Hooray for the Supreme Court of California!)<BR/><BR/>Second, the libellous suggestion that the Episcopal Church has been on a "progressive march toward liturgical and even doctrinal Unitarianism" must be answered. The charge is outrageous. The Episcopal Church is, in my experience, generally a doctrinally orthodox and liturgically orthoprax, progressive, inclusive, Trinitarian, Christian Church.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-24123986907755445102009-01-05T07:57:00.000-05:002009-01-05T07:57:00.000-05:00The ACI labours under the illusion that TECUSA pay...The ACI labours under the illusion that TECUSA pays attention to them......Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-8877244399689967032009-01-04T20:31:00.000-05:002009-01-04T20:31:00.000-05:00Fr. Mark, You quoted / wrote:{“We shall not attem...Fr. Mark, <BR/><BR/>You quoted / wrote:<BR/>{“We shall not attempt to predict an outcome. If our theology is right, such an attempt would be at a minimum presumptuous.”<BR/><BR/>Well, I will be presumptuous for you. The outcome will be a sizable new world wide Anglican-like body, but one which will fracture within itself over purity issues. }<BR/><BR/>In fact the new body wont come together before it fractures over what its most self-annointed-holy think is purity. Cf. Mr. Iker who already is in "impaired communion" with Mr. Duncan of all people! It appears Mr. Duncan is excessively tolerant of (submissive, homophobic) women. The N.A. super holy province wont make it to birth as a unity.<BR/><BR/>FWIW<BR/>jimBJimBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17312606954135884910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-53047312536006984452009-01-04T12:17:00.000-05:002009-01-04T12:17:00.000-05:00The exclusive PLACE TO STAND...is in a swamp fille...The exclusive PLACE TO STAND...is in a swamp filled with quicksand...none of this gets better no matter how puritan zealots try and rationalize their scheming and excluding behavior away...mindaltering pontificating won´t cut it...patience or no patience, ready or not.Leonardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16667415590825321701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-87101780548615367082009-01-04T10:42:00.000-05:002009-01-04T10:42:00.000-05:00Elegant writing, to be sure. Perhaps I can imitate...Elegant writing, to be sure. Perhaps I can imitate the authors' style as I note the obvious omission in their list of "commitments required by differentiation within TEC": <BR/><BR/><I>8. Commitment to a flat-earth, Pauline version of Christianity.</I><BR/><BR/>Is anyone else humming "It's the Same Old Song" by the Four Tops?Lynnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09748809418423591030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-46802115946187778502009-01-04T10:30:00.000-05:002009-01-04T10:30:00.000-05:00On the second province theory....I do not believe ...On the second province theory....I do not believe that it has ever been the intent of Duncan et alii to become a 2nd province. It has always been and continues to be a "replacement" province. (Cf http://www.episcopalcafe.com/daily/episcopal_church/report_of_the_house_of_bishops.php for a clear summary of the strategy and tactics of Bishop Duncan.) The interesting question is what I suspect is the "temporary" interim “2nd province” Hence the argument that there would be no "province boundary crossing" if ++Canterbury would simply acknowledge it. {Any who want to track Naughton’s sources should visit the Calvery Pittsburgh website which is helpful in terms of the history of its litigation which revealed +Duncan’s plans and provides links to the Allegheny Protonotary office where the litigation documents are posted}. EPfizHAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-84094465656507551402009-01-04T02:15:00.000-05:002009-01-04T02:15:00.000-05:00Mark:I think the key is this comment you made: The...Mark:<BR/><BR/>I think the key is this comment you made: <BR/><BR/><I>The Anglican Communion does not require a covenant in order to continue to be a fellowship of churches. It needs a Covenant in order to be a Church.</I><BR/><BR/>There seems to be a great need, largely by folks with conservative leanings, to transform the <B>Anglican Communion</B> into the <B>Anglican Church</B> rather than continue it as as communion, or fellowship, of churches with a common ancestry. This is presumably because of a need to "purify" the Anglican Communion.<BR/><BR/>The irony of this is, of course, that many of the Primates advocating this direction are also chafing at the lingering effects of being a church in a former colony. I would think it would be difficult to decry colonialism while advocating church centralization, but apparently not.Tom Sramek, Jr.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17891982131922786298noreply@blogger.com