tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post4288146691354825992..comments2024-02-15T03:32:25.686-05:00Comments on Preludium, Anglican and Episcopal futures: Bishops Ackerman and P. Beckwith and the times that are coming.Mark Harrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-42078417405210975022009-06-18T14:07:37.171-04:002009-06-18T14:07:37.171-04:00Having designed a few logos in younger days of pla...Having designed a few logos in younger days of playing with Macs & Desktop Publishing, that shield is hugely out of needed proportion. Nothing like an over-sized St. George's cross to scream of one's Anglicanism.<br /><br />Last night I had an idea and for a few minutes was playing with the backed-off globe in Google Earth, like I was an astronaut in the Int'l Space Station, trying to replicate that view of North Am. It is fictional. I could not manipulate that land mass into that particular viewpoint.Brother Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333089314994730330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-48052292129391763562009-06-18T09:45:04.149-04:002009-06-18T09:45:04.149-04:00Actually ... it looks like the big shield is diste...Actually ... it looks like the big shield is distending out of the east coast of the United States. Significant?WilliamKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14545955266846478775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-46753097211422106322009-06-17T18:58:15.023-04:002009-06-17T18:58:15.023-04:00David, you made me really look at that logo again....David, you made me really look at that logo again. Did you notice the whole east coast --- including Pennsylvania and Virginia (two of the hotbeds of high orthodoxy) are covered up yet they show Central America clean down to Panama? How very interesting. <br /><br />kittyLinda Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17793936253851743845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-44603110970907269282009-06-17T17:26:04.026-04:002009-06-17T17:26:04.026-04:00Re:women clerics. If all ACNA wants to do is stu...Re:women clerics. If all ACNA wants to do is study something to death, they might as well stay in TEC. The HoB is good at that.<br /><br />Fr. Mark I think your list a bit short. You missed:<br /><br />vi. Bishops Akerman and Beckwith have abandoned the communion of this church.<br /><br />FWIW<br />jimBJimBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17312606954135884910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-57468537745893374152009-06-17T15:36:12.984-04:002009-06-17T15:36:12.984-04:00IT,
Don't forget about "uppity" wom...IT,<br /><br />Don't forget about "uppity" women. Somehow I get the feeling that ACNA will place place a moratorium on ordination of women (if they haven't already) so that it can be "studied" further.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17550041790269387561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-9198306753320850462009-06-17T14:52:50.691-04:002009-06-17T14:52:50.691-04:00I hope that these bishops, should they decide to l...I hope that these bishops, should they decide to leave, will decide to leave without a ruckus. Renouncing one's orders as Bishops Bane and MacBurney have would be a graceful way to exit.Daniel Weirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11430381764138066595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-77933364932296218332009-06-17T12:41:07.066-04:002009-06-17T12:41:07.066-04:00Shouldn't there be an asterisk in the logo, sa...Shouldn't there be an asterisk in the logo, saying "No Queers Allowed"?IThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09605163506396013904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-23883188232893801172009-06-17T09:41:25.525-04:002009-06-17T09:41:25.525-04:00Isn't the commonplace definition of insanity d...Isn't the commonplace definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? So ACNA thinks letting one gender rule the universe is somehow going to work our for everyone this time? Patriarchate/Patriarchy--doesn't make much difference from where I sit (although I do like a scholarly point of precision)--they're retrograde either way. And that they're forming a "Christian" body whose origin and gathering point is the hatred and fear of a significant group of other humans. While there's clearly nothing anyone can do to prevent them from doing what they're doing (and maybe no one who has the right to, except for Canterbury--and no backbone there), the duty to witness and speak does make it important to keep calling them what they truly are, so keep it up, Mark. <br /><br />Meanwhile, it's interesting to think about the role post-colonial guilt has had in all this. Funny to think that this mess might be as much the fault of Edward Said and Gayatri Spivak as of Bob Duncan and Peter Akinola and Rowan Williams.<br /><br />Devon Miller-DugganUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11015463457108574582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-83548902004023111462009-06-17T09:40:43.071-04:002009-06-17T09:40:43.071-04:00Do I understand you correctly, Fr. Mark, in saying...Do I understand you correctly, Fr. Mark, in saying that both bishops can still function as TEC bishops AND be members of ACNA, as long as they do not perform any routine episcopal acts (such as the ordination of other bishops or confirmations) for ACNA? A few inquiring minds here in the Dio. Of Springfield wonder if we still have a TEC bishop, at all! <br /><br />I can’t imagine a situation where the Latin ordinary of the local Catholic diocese announced his “membership” in an 'Old Catholic' Archdiocese-in-formation, with Rome and/or the American conference of Catholic bishops simply ignoring that action – episcopal acts not withstanding. Perhaps my Roman Catholic background/ethos leads me to misunderstand. <br /><br />Furthermore, Bishop Beckwith has said several times that 1. he will retire by the end of 2009 and 2. that he - personally – cannot remove this diocese from The Episcopal Church. Perhaps a repeat of Quincy’s actions is planned in Springfield? Regardless, Springfield's Synod in October ’09 should be “interesting”!<br /><br />'Jay' in the Diocese of SpringfieldAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-51461671650069508052009-06-17T08:08:12.464-04:002009-06-17T08:08:12.464-04:00Have Bishops Ackerman and Beckwith been deposed ye...Have Bishops Ackerman and Beckwith been deposed yet? Perhaps its time for a preemptive strike from the PB. Is that what you are alluding to about getting serious Mark?Brian Fhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06938619697698149146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-28763937250762311052009-06-17T08:04:00.077-04:002009-06-17T08:04:00.077-04:00"The word "transforming" as used by..."The word "transforming" as used by the Network has always had hidden deep within it the signal that homosexuals could be transformed, turned into celibate or straight persons. Under the earlier call, "God changes lives for good," ACN was committed to transformative therapy. "<br /><br />Remarkable.<br />A whole new church founded on homosexuality. It's there in the new logo. That seems to be the only issue that all of these disparate factions of evangelicals and Anglo-Catholics will be able to agree on, and that brings them together in the first place.Counterlighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14345956180434795401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-49372435643505835122009-06-17T07:48:39.089-04:002009-06-17T07:48:39.089-04:00Oooo Dah-veed, nice catch!Oooo Dah-veed, nice catch!Lois Keenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13708877817422097051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-12449962297689034892009-06-17T01:45:59.079-04:002009-06-17T01:45:59.079-04:00Funny how they have turned North America in their ...Funny how they have turned North America in their new logo. The artist could have included the Yukon and Alaska and let the shield cover most of Mexico and Central America. Is this some ominous warning of their eventual plan to displace the two Anglican churches; the Anglican Church of Mexico and the Anglican Church of the Central American Region, as well?Brother Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333089314994730330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-68917875134948002252009-06-17T01:26:11.301-04:002009-06-17T01:26:11.301-04:00Your comment about the present archbishop of Cante...Your comment about the present archbishop of Canterbury (unlike his predecessor) is unbalanced and unfair. Rowan Williams has frequently outraged the American left, but he has been remarkably successful in letting the rightwingers trumpet themselves into wholly unorthodox and indefensible stances. ACNA may have the support of a handful of primates--far from a majority--but there's no evidence whatever that these primates speak for their churches (except possibly for those bishops whom they've created and who are dependent on their good favor). <br /><br />True Anglicanism will continue to muddle through as it has now for more than 450 years, or a millennium and a half if you add in the Celtic church. Faux "Anglicanism" will have about as much significance as the "Traditional Anglican Communion," which seems to consist of the Church of the Torres Strait pinched from Australia's Anglican Diocese of North Queensland and several handfuls of odds and ends around the rest of the world.trueanglicanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15024301226058203209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-54658221466222700792009-06-17T00:46:10.006-04:002009-06-17T00:46:10.006-04:00I believe a patriarchate refers to a specific see,...I believe a <em>patriarchate</em> refers to a specific see, led by a patriarch (bishop). Mark refers to a "full blown world-wide Anglican entity" in point (iv). I'll also add that <em>patriarchy</em> is not a tendentious term if it is accurate.<br /><br />Mark, I think your prediction of a more formal, Global South-based Anglican entity is correct. So be it. But past schisms teach us that the older entity usually survives along with the new. Who knows which group will be viewed as the "official" Anglican entity by the larger Christian community? Probably both, if the Lutherans are any example.Lynnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09748809418423591030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-82423518212284815892009-06-16T20:30:29.770-04:002009-06-16T20:30:29.770-04:00thanks, Mark - you have told the obvious truth. &...thanks, Mark - you have told the obvious truth. 'Bout time we all acknowledged it.Fr Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04232925124388686609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-53931471281858346622009-06-16T20:13:48.696-04:002009-06-16T20:13:48.696-04:00What these outfits also crave is attention. I'...What these outfits also crave is attention. I'd give them as much attention as consistent with defence, but none more; when this FCA starts up in Britain I'll no doubt make a comment, but I'll make no more comment than it deserves and it will deserve very little.Pluralist (Adrian Worsfold)https://www.blogger.com/profile/01922153724523820866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-23623752598916556412009-06-16T19:27:41.736-04:002009-06-16T19:27:41.736-04:00You continually refer to an ecclesiastical entity ...You continually refer to an ecclesiastical entity headed by a patriarch as a "patriarchy;" that's erroneous. With your Orthodox contacts, you should know that such an entity is a "patriarchate," as in Moscow Patriarchate. Look up their website. Unless you intend a tendentious reference to government by males, the proper word is "patriarchate." Fred Slimp, Missoula, MTFred Slimpnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-78077359334024807732009-06-16T17:56:31.582-04:002009-06-16T17:56:31.582-04:00Wither thou goest? (Quo Vadis?) The legend says P...Wither thou goest? (Quo Vadis?) The legend says Peter turned back to remain with the Christians in Rome. Roman Christians went on to do great things. Likely, they would have done great things in any event.<br /><br />I any event, to avoid too much damage to this metaphor, elevate the status of those who leave, or for that matter those who stay, I think all the Christians will be alright.Point of Orderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11197275383322593717noreply@blogger.com