tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post5072327965822623541..comments2024-02-15T03:32:25.686-05:00Comments on Preludium, Anglican and Episcopal futures: The Episcopal Church speaks on the question of the Uganda anti-gay bill.Mark Harrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-14467038333980148282009-12-06T19:22:25.448-05:002009-12-06T19:22:25.448-05:00Quite a reaction. Jim says no, it really had noth...Quite a reaction. Jim says no, it really had nothing to do with Mormons, just the finer details of campaign finance law. Lynn protests that we shouldn't believe any ECUSAns approve of any such scapegoating, and throws in a few other qualifiers besides, sidestepping the fact that the PB failed to do likewise, writing flatly: "we affirm that the public scapegoating of <b>any</b> category of persons, in <b>any</b> context, is anathema." That didn't apply only to the sainted Episcopal Church. Marshall wants to play semantics, but fails inasmuch as the Uganda legislation under fire <i>is</i> about the behavior of the group being targeted (wrongly, in my opinion).<br /><br />So what it comes down to is what IT openly admits: Mormons and others who exercised their constitutional rights to differ from her on a matter of public policy, advocate in the election process and vote in it deserve to be scapegoated for her side's failure to make its case, even in California, surely a best-case scenario. Or, in other words, option 2 in my original comment: we affirm that the public scapegoating of any category of persons we favor is anathema, and, if you disagree, your category is, well, anathema.Philnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-886513340532078732009-12-05T13:55:42.524-05:002009-12-05T13:55:42.524-05:00I'm sorry, Phil, but I don't see the paral...I'm sorry, Phil, but I don't see the parallel. "Scapegoating" has to do with laying on the victim the sins of <i>others</i>, sins (or at least acts, if you don't consider them sins) the victim didn't commit. So, gay folk are scapegoated when blamed for failures of families, without consideration of divorce, unfaithfulness, or economic forces affecting marriages; or for AIDS, when in Uganda (and elsewhere) the vast majority of cases come through heterosexual contact; or for child abuse, when the vast majority of cases involve men who understand themselves as heterosexual.<br /><br />On the other hand, any anger about those in California who voted for Prop 8, and about Mormon and Catholic groups outside of California who contributed heavily to campaigns against marriage equality, isn't scapegoating. It's about acts that they manifestly <i>did</i> commit.<br /><br />(My verification is "phetloc;" as in with that broken "phetloc" <i>that</i> horse won't run!)Marshall Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02807749717320495495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-21429291266170796172009-12-05T11:47:00.155-05:002009-12-05T11:47:00.155-05:00Phil, there's no reason to think that members ...Phil, there's no reason to think that members of TEC approve of <em>any</em> scapegoating type of behavior.<br /><br />However, I haven't heard of anyone in California proposing legislation to kill any Mormons for going to services, or encouraging others to attend. Certainly there's no whisper of jailing people for not reporting Mormons to the authorities.<br /><br />Kindly think about how the stakes are different in Uganda, even if this legislation doesn't become law.Lynnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09748809418423591030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-21981785647890800182009-12-05T11:29:48.809-05:002009-12-05T11:29:48.809-05:00Phil needs to get out more. No one picked on Morm...Phil needs to get out more. No one picked on Mormons per se. Their church, in my view, violated IRS standards in its financing of the prop 8 campaign. Very like the RCC, the LDS is a very top down organization -- sort of the Rowan Williams model actually in place. It is possible to dislike what the institution did without disliking all its members.<br /><br />FWIW<br />jimBJimBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17312606954135884910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-2069108584668067612009-12-05T10:54:35.563-05:002009-12-05T10:54:35.563-05:00When she writes, "we affirm that the public s...When she writes, "we affirm that the public scapegoating of any category of persons, in any context, is anathema," does that include Mormons, and others in general, who supported Prop 8 in California? Or does "any" mean "groups we favor?"Philnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-69149424207970913192009-12-05T10:41:07.157-05:002009-12-05T10:41:07.157-05:00mark,
It takes days and weeks to figure out that &...mark,<br />It takes days and weeks to figure out that "to be gay is to be arrested and executed" is wrong? What's up? It is not only what is said but how long it took everyone to say something!Frank Remkiewicz aka “Tree”https://www.blogger.com/profile/00501821790434895826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-19497482662062955112009-12-04T21:01:09.075-05:002009-12-04T21:01:09.075-05:00Pushed on not, better a late statement than none a...Pushed on not, better a late statement than none at all.<br /><br />Maybe this might nudge ++Rowan Williams out of his desire to replay the role of Pius XII in this matter.Counterlighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14345956180434795401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-91449587252569164832009-12-04T18:47:45.057-05:002009-12-04T18:47:45.057-05:00Jim...yes. The push is in this case part of the pr...Jim...yes. The push is in this case part of the process of "incorporation" of views concerning urgency, etc.Mark Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-72899861390738713502009-12-04T16:45:42.087-05:002009-12-04T16:45:42.087-05:00I think you are being a bit generous. The stateme...I think you are being a bit generous. The statement is certainly a decent one but its timing suggests to me that without the executive council push we would not have it. <br /><br />FWIW<br />jimBJimBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17312606954135884910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-31096914364314183822009-12-04T16:32:01.060-05:002009-12-04T16:32:01.060-05:00Thanks, indeed. I think this is a very welcome me...Thanks, indeed. I think this is a very welcome message from the Presiding Bishop on behalf of The Episcopal Church.LKThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05791517233920008067noreply@blogger.com