tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post5297428463500840080..comments2024-02-15T03:32:25.686-05:00Comments on Preludium, Anglican and Episcopal futures: The Archbishop of Cape Town on the Anglican CovenantMark Harrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-43196411282453390492012-04-01T16:32:54.169-04:002012-04-01T16:32:54.169-04:00The letter is a chess piece in the Canterbury succ...The letter is a chess piece in the Canterbury succession stakes.<br /><br />General reaction in England, even from those supporting it, like the bishop of Oxford, "Yes to the Covenant's" principal front man (whose own clergy were solid in opposition), is that the Covenant is dead. Good riddance.Lapinbizarrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686990585795363001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-88894583914328514332012-04-01T08:25:15.301-04:002012-04-01T08:25:15.301-04:00Dear Canon Sarah Rowland Jones: ...honored to have...Dear Canon Sarah Rowland Jones: ...honored to have your comment and clarification. It does go to show how English is a bit slippery. <br /><br />I suppose in part I am thinking about a bit of our own less than honorable history of moderation. In the lead up to and indeed the follow-up from the Civil War The Episcopal Church was mostly silent on the matter of slavery (prior to the war) and segregation laws. Segregation was in some form everywhere the norm and the Church was widely complicit. But the pride of the church was its moderation. The effect was its silence. All this was soundly condemned by Dr. King from jail. <br /><br />It turned out that moderation in the Church related to the wider issues of the day did not serve us well. Our moderation played out badly in the Church and muted our moral voice in the world. <br /><br />I would suggest that passionate engagement with opponents as well as friends would have (and finally did) serve the Church better. <br /><br />The intersection between matters of civil and ecclesial life are mightily intertwined here. I perhaps made too quick a jump from the one to the other in this blog entry, not remembering the differences in the burdens we carry. <br /><br />Still I stand by the matter as a whole.<br /><br />Again, thanks for the note and clarification.Mark Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-69642415212651543612012-03-31T19:41:50.432-04:002012-03-31T19:41:50.432-04:00The discussion of "provinces" raises the...The discussion of "provinces" raises the serious deficiency in using that term for the churches of the Communion. It suggests that we are, like the provinces in the Roman Empire, not autonomous churches. It is say best time for us to retire the label.Daniel Weirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11430381764138066595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-21677576572490383922012-03-31T13:37:24.720-04:002012-03-31T13:37:24.720-04:00Greetings from Cape Town!
You raise the questio...Greetings from Cape Town! <br /><br />You raise the question of whom the Archbishop is addressing, in referring to 'secular legal norms' and 'separate identities'. Please be assured that this is intended to refer to the relationship between Member Churches of the Anglican Communion - the main topic of his letter. It is certainly not meant to apply to individuals in the way you query, which would of course be quite another matter altogether. <br /><br />wishing you a blessed Holy Week and all the joys of Easter,<br /><br />Revd Canon Dr Sarah Rowland Jones<br />Researcher to Archbishop Thabo MakgobaSarahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-66834538324650761732012-03-30T14:46:05.203-04:002012-03-30T14:46:05.203-04:00Three comments, s'il vous plaît. First, Abp Ma...Three comments, s'il vous plaît. First, Abp Makgoba referred to "disagreements over human sexuality" in one paragraph and "the disunity over sexuality" in the very next. Why the shift in terminology? I become suspicious when a writer reframes the topic in this way.<br /><br />Secondly, you are to be commended for your gracious reading of the Abp's letter. However, when Abp Makgoba asserts that, by inclusion, TEC is being "content to do our own thing, allowing ourselves to be preoccupied with our own concerns," I become decidedly less charitable. The journey of TEC to recognition of the humanity and the dignity of LGBT persons has been agonizing for all of us. It is most definitely not some hedonistic excursion, nor a diversion into narcissism. I believe the Abp is seriously understating our experience in this discussion.<br /><br />Finally, no quantity of verbiage about "our call to dependence on God," or "God's salvific and redemptive promises" can remove the "relational consequences" promised by Part 4 of the Covenant to those intent on replacing TEC with ACNA in the Anglican Communion.<br /><br />I look forward to seeing the vote in Abp. Sentamu's province, and to how open the discussions were in his jurisdiction.Pfalz prophethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10465623376468902861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-65092856692919556022012-03-30T10:51:00.205-04:002012-03-30T10:51:00.205-04:00Now that we have the minor issue of protocols clar...Now that we have the minor issue of protocols clarified (sort of), 'good letter.'<br /><br />Msgr<br /><br />PS--I would dispute the sharp apple/orange distinction being introduced. +York has recently represented CofE. +Canterbury Chairs on behalf of the communion as such. I also seriously doubt that +South Africa felt there was some big distinction...Msgrnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-55929741023739456642012-03-30T08:18:56.157-04:002012-03-30T08:18:56.157-04:00Brother David... of course you are right. So I cor...Brother David... of course you are right. So I corrected it. But in doing so other problems will be pointed out, particularly by our friends in the CofE. At any rate two Archbishops are talking to each other.<br /><br />My language did not make it clear that one was of a Province, the other of an internal Province.<br /><br />MarkMark Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-6228819293124178902012-03-30T03:10:55.208-04:002012-03-30T03:10:55.208-04:00He is, after all the head of one province writing ...<i>He is, after all the head of one province writing the head of another. </i><br /><br />Father Mark, I beg to differ. The provinces of which they each are the head are as similar as an apple is to an orange. The one is the head of a sovereign, autonomous Anglican church, the Anglican Church in Southern Africa, while the other is not. (And hopefully never will be!) The two provinces of the CoE are similar to the 10 provinces of TEC.Brother Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333089314994730330noreply@blogger.com