tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post5920131816353742478..comments2024-02-15T03:32:25.686-05:00Comments on Preludium, Anglican and Episcopal futures: Seven years ago now...the Archbishop stepped in it. Lest we forget.Mark Harrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-56931149825782543202010-09-01T20:18:23.692-04:002010-09-01T20:18:23.692-04:00The scheme DOES sound a lot like ++/Rowan's mi...The scheme DOES sound a lot like ++/Rowan's misbegotten "Flying Bishops" scheme for the C of E though, doesn't it? And about as likely to remain airborne...Wadehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11385254585966905674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-87189706656558949002010-09-01T18:36:40.702-04:002010-09-01T18:36:40.702-04:00Fellow Christians, without doubt. Anglicans, just ...Fellow Christians, without doubt. Anglicans, just for now. If the ACNA bishops and priests step away from being part of the province of the Anglican Cone without aligning with another already existing province, then they form a new Christian denomination or denominations, hopefully one without such a mouthful of capital letters as ACNA or GAFCON. For the evangelical wing that allows WO, perhaps the name Duncanites? For the Anglo-Catholics something more traditional? Of course, they're still welcome in TEC. I wish our brothers and sisters in Christ well, whatever they decide. It will be interesting to see who allies with whom ten years hence.Betsyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05679480944866739828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-22772992552630578702010-09-01T15:33:24.037-04:002010-09-01T15:33:24.037-04:00There are plenty of comments that one could make a...There are plenty of comments that one could make about culture and the communities of faith to which we belong. Although it is true that there is a growing acceptance of same-sex relationships in North America, the dominant culture still seems to me to be heterosexist, and it this culture that is clearly reflected in ACNA. There are still vestiges of Christendom and triumphalism in North America, evident in both the Episcopal Church and ACNA. While some elements of culture cannot be accommodated within faithful communities, there are some that can and it is the task of those communities to make that discernment. Perhaps the Episcopal Church is wrong in its discernment, but I remain unconvinced by all the arguments.<br /><br />My major quarrel with those who have left the Episcopal Church is that they seem stuck in defining themselves as not-the-Episcopal-Church, that is, stuck in a rivalry that will ultimately do them harm.Daniel Weirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11430381764138066595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-89734990861793860632010-09-01T14:49:27.797-04:002010-09-01T14:49:27.797-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-2177444320886122522010-09-01T14:49:04.605-04:002010-09-01T14:49:04.605-04:00Might a word or two be said in defence of the accu...Might a word or two be said in defence of the accused here?<br /><br />(1) To suggest a 'network' be formed in order to draw together those dissatisfied with a decision is not in itself an original or novel suggestion, nor one likely to occur to the ABC but not to anyone else. In the circumstances of 2003, to encourage Episcopalians feeling disturbed and disaffected to form a network seems a matter of common sense. It seems likely that a 'network' response would have formed with or without a word from the ABC, because that was an obvious thing to do.<br /><br />(2) A 'network' of itself is not necessarily a schismatic body. Networks can work within a larger body without leaving it. Clearly the 2003 network later did become a leaving rather than staying entity, but did the ABC encourage that departure? (I realise that some feel that he did with later statements about 'dioceses' being the basic unit of Anglicanism etc).<br /><br />(3) It would be most unfortunate if 'confessing' was included in a name in the sense that the body being distinguished from was seen to act in some kind of 'Nazi' manner. But I always understood that the objection of the Confessing Church of the 1930s to the wider German church under Naziism was to the capture of the church by 'German culture' represented through the 'German Christians' movement. Thus 'Confessing' intended to capture the distinction between a church beholden only to the Lord Jesus Christ and a church also beholden to culture. There is an argument abroad in the Communion that TEC, along with other Western Anglican churches contemplating progressive change on same sex relationships are following culture more than Scripture. Promotion of 'Confessing' is then not making a comparison between TEC and Nazi Germany but between churches in respect of lordship: Christ alone or Christ and culture? (Naturally much argument to be had here, and there is plenty of scope for rejoinders about what elements of 'culture' are influencing ACNA, Nigeria, Uganda and all).Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-88692340059094654682010-09-01T11:40:15.020-04:002010-09-01T11:40:15.020-04:00"Confessing Church" Self congratultory b..."Confessing Church" Self congratultory baloney! What the Confessing Church did was to stand in opposition to popular prejudice against the Jews, idolizing nationalism and militaristic imperialism.<br /><br />How does the Archbishop read history? Certainly what ACNA is about has more to do with the prejudices and nationalism of conervative Americans than the rejection of NAZIism in Germany in the 1930's! What a terrible comparison!<br /><br />Rev. Sarah FlynnSarah Flynnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05118217662597907647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-80187981580775143682010-09-01T09:17:51.053-04:002010-09-01T09:17:51.053-04:00It is worth noting that Bonhoeffer declined to lab...It is worth noting that Bonhoeffer declined to label the Nazi controlled church a false church and simply pointed to the marks of the true church which he believed could be seen in the Confessing Church. If our brothers and sisters in this new confessing movement followed Bonhoeffer's example and refrained from vitriolic attacks on the Episcopal Church things might be far better now.Daniel Weirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11430381764138066595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-38498574177288768742010-09-01T09:09:47.404-04:002010-09-01T09:09:47.404-04:00Bob G wrote, "...in his position, or for whoe...Bob G wrote, "...in his position, or for whoever holds that position, he will not stand up and dance the tango with those stridently on the other side of controversy..."<br />So far as I can tell, Carey did just that. The result: the infamous 1998 Lambeth Conference that produced Resolution 1:10 amidst great rancor and led to a new expectation that the bishops and primates would become a magesterium, casting out and lifting up at will.<br /><br />The word verification is "tindows" - windows made of tin, designed so none can see in.Lois Keenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13708877817422097051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-40592659571477128642010-09-01T06:57:46.005-04:002010-09-01T06:57:46.005-04:00I agree with Leonardo, but we also have to accept ...I agree with Leonardo, but we also have to accept that in his position, or for whoever holds that position, he will not stand up and dance the tango with those stridently on the other side of controversy, either.<br /><br />I absolutely reject the way the dissenters have prosecuted their "war of righteousness", but can we accept our own culpability in all that has transpired? If we can't, if we can't "walk in their shoes," then we are not truly progressive or liberal, but simply in want of our way without compromise or consequences. We simply become "like them."Bob G+https://www.blogger.com/profile/04882646624853042759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-75595743454953668352010-08-31T23:26:39.134-04:002010-08-31T23:26:39.134-04:00I always found it funny that they called themselve...I always found it funny that they called themselves "confessing" christians when they spend all their time denying wrongdoing.MarkBrunsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16971990948866488080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-61227914657107670522010-08-31T21:16:01.878-04:002010-08-31T21:16:01.878-04:00+Rowan, it's time for you to go home now.+Rowan, it's time for you to go home now.WSJMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09712152737422347034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-46585496043091711812010-08-31T19:19:51.855-04:002010-08-31T19:19:51.855-04:00You know this whole mess with Archbishop Rowan ¨of...You know this whole mess with Archbishop Rowan ¨offering¨ advice is very clear...Dr. Williams always had clear and good intentions (and rarely verbalizes them very well), it´s just that the schismatics weren´t interested in anything other than using him as a beard...and the game continued in Entebbe, Uganda last week...I think it´s time that the ABC stays seated the next time he´s asked to dance the tango with other men with hairy eyebrows.Leonardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16667415590825321701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-19515410459944527722010-08-31T17:16:27.933-04:002010-08-31T17:16:27.933-04:00Oh Mark! I remember now that you remind me. What...Oh Mark! I remember now that you remind me. What mischief, nay beyond mischief, real damage, is done by meddling in affairs where one has no business. Who will rid us...? No, I won't go there!<br /><br /><i>No narrower example or more specific comparison, for instance to the church in Germany in the 1930s, was intended." </i><br /><br />Of course not! What a thought! The Network of Confessing Dioceses and their co-conspirator were ever completely innocent of intending comparisons of the Episcopal Church with Nazi Germany. Who would ever think such a thing?June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.com