tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post7554451263131516432..comments2024-02-15T03:32:25.686-05:00Comments on Preludium, Anglican and Episcopal futures: The Strange Case of the Province of South East Asia and their Letter of AccessionMark Harrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06871096746243771489noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-58507357086479647652011-05-25T22:44:51.112-04:002011-05-25T22:44:51.112-04:00Thanks Frederick! My pal Jesus IS enough for me. A...Thanks Frederick! My pal Jesus IS enough for me. And I'm quite content being one of the outsiders yet still enjoy a good Episcopal service. Amazing what God is capable of doing, I think.Briannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-3929125132814794102011-05-25T17:55:57.970-04:002011-05-25T17:55:57.970-04:00Everyone here must understand that the whole genes...Everyone here must understand that the whole genesis of the Covenant is because of TEC's and the Anglican Church of Canada's actions in contravention to Lambeth 1.10.¨ rob<br /><br />What a bunch of silliness--as if pontificating about what WE MUST (codependent junktalk) UNDERSTAND was going to cover up/give license for the NON-LISTENING as Lambeth 1.10 also suggested...there is a big difference when religiouslike bigots and thieves at the Anglican Communion refuse to sit in the same room with ¨ladies and/or homolepers¨ (¨lower than pigs¨ as I recall)...forget opening ourselves together for Eucharistic miracles and loving one another.Leonardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16667415590825321701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-92041204101826656342011-05-25T17:46:44.297-04:002011-05-25T17:46:44.297-04:00Thanks, Brian. I agree with your sentiment/candor....Thanks, Brian. I agree with your sentiment/candor. Let TEC and covenants go, and indeed 'Church' altogether. You have a 'pal' in Jesus and that should suffice. <br /><br />FrederickAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-24165892942526219812011-05-25T17:34:50.555-04:002011-05-25T17:34:50.555-04:00Frederick and rob, I hate to burst your triumphal ...Frederick and rob, I hate to burst your triumphal little conservative bubble but the covenant and all the hoopla swirling around it matter nothing to me and most in TEC and AC of C. <br /><br />Mark has just reason to feel as he does about the communion and I support him in whatever position he feels is right for him. <br /><br />Me, however, I couldn’t care less. My relationship with God is A-OK. Jesus and I are pals. I’ve been a member of TEC for over 15 years now, after having fled the self-righteous scribes and pharisees of the Roman Catholic church. <br /><br />TEC is nice. It isn’t my faith. It isn’t my belief. It isn’t my salvation. It isn’t my everything. It’s the place (most of the time) where I meet with others, some of whom I agree with and some of whom I don’t, to worship God and do what can be done to make the Kingdom visible and real. Yes, even to gays.<br /><br />Your endless arguments about the tyranny of the majority, much like Peter’s red herring on doctrine, mean little to nothing to me and many, many Episcopalians and Canadian Anglicans. You know, that fine fellow Jesus was also condemned by the orthodox majority of his time and he did all right.<br /><br />I think I’ll trust in following his example and worry not a whit about the mind of the majority, the faith once delivered, the covenant, and all that other falderal.<br /><br />Peace be with you, brothers in Christ!<br /><br />WV: joyer<br /><br />I am doing my best to be a joyer and spread the joy of God’s love to ALL human beings, doctrinally certified, majority accepted, and Lambeth 1:10 approved or not. : )Briannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-36940629771558894142011-05-25T15:05:35.533-04:002011-05-25T15:05:35.533-04:00I find myself nodding when I read the first part o...I find myself nodding when I read the first part of Rob's note. The "Covenant" did not simply happen. It is a juridical response to actions taken by Canada and USA that offended Central Africa, and other Southern churches. <br /><br />The idea that either Canada or TEC could sign is deeply flawed when we recall that this thing is intended to be the bill of outlawry against, (oh!) Canada and TEC.<br /><br />In fact the GafCon objection is that it is not explicitly that. <br /><br />Everyone now seems to forget the knife in the glove. The term of art is, "relational consequences." <br /><br />No the document does not say, "you are out of the communion" but it does say the "standing committee" (star chamber) will advise the "instruments" that the"innovation" is "unanglican" and they will then determine the "relational consequences" <br /><br />Ok, other than suspending formal communion between CoE and the bad guys (presumably USA, Canada and three interventionist African churches) what is the ABC going to do, send them nasty notes? The "relational" elements available to him are invitations to the primates' meetings, invitations to Lambeth, authorized lay inter-communion, clergy recognition, and invitations to submit scholars to serve on various boards and commissions. It is not like he can tell us we are grounded!<br /><br />The same is true for the ACC. It can only have members or not, invite them to meetings or not and invite their experts to pontificate or not. <br /><br />Lambeth and the primate's are in fact creations of the first two so nothing else really matters. Lambeth does not for instance determine its own membership. ACC in creating various conferences determines invitees and speakers.<br /><br />We have already seen "relational consequences" imposed by the archbishop's chief executioner. Dose anyone seriously think anything else is coming?<br /><br />FWIW<br />jimBJimBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17312606954135884910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-27916907772319435732011-05-25T13:19:39.253-04:002011-05-25T13:19:39.253-04:00Everyone here must understand that the whole genes...Everyone here must understand that the whole genesis of the Covenant is because of TEC's and the Anglican Church of Canada's actions in contravention to Lambeth 1.10. TEC sees itself as promosting justice to LGBT people, so clearly they could never agree to the covenant with any integrity. So what point is the hypothetical of them agreeing to the covenant? It seems the real problem here on this blog is not that South East Asia has imposed an new "condition" but that they have repeated historical context for clarity.robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16598249282829894945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-13165485018898590832011-05-25T11:54:30.541-04:002011-05-25T11:54:30.541-04:00I see the future. The first disagreements amongst...I see the future. The first disagreements amongst those who adopt, accede to, subscribe to the "curate's egg" will be what they <i>meant</i> when they signed on. The standing committee or some other entity will need to sort that out.<br /><br />And this is the document that is to intensify the bonds of affection? Heh, heh. We shall see.June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-1393548816125814632011-05-25T10:00:31.381-04:002011-05-25T10:00:31.381-04:00Why do I hear the voice of ++Rowan and The Anglica...Why do I hear the voice of ++Rowan and The Anglican Standing Committee, Christmas Past, rasping/whispering instructions on how to fashion a flimsy/threadbare positivelike covenant response and of pretend the blatant ill-intentions of SE Asia are not? <br /><br />Clearly Bishop Chew is dragging the chains of oppression and rattling anti-LGBTI Anglican threats again...there will be much suffering of innocents because of this obstinate man and the pronouncements of his accomplices against people like me in Asia. <br /><br />Makes me wonder how WE can ever trust this group evangelicalike ¨fixers¨ on any level of Anglican Communion interaction based of real love and reality-- deliberate and premeditated abuse of fellow Christians at the Anglican Communion ought be named as the crime against humanity it is...scrub a dub-dub won´t clean the ignorance, fear and hate away...the affirming signatures to this ¨covenant¨ are smudged with LGBTI blood already...do not look away.Leonardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16667415590825321701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-81131842641016068072011-05-25T08:57:27.902-04:002011-05-25T08:57:27.902-04:00Want to see 'the dead'? Study the collapse...Want to see 'the dead'? Study the collapse of the Kirk following the vote of the General Assembly. I believe even they see that this will lead to a major schism and decline.<br /><br />FrederickAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-48201186003175980522011-05-25T08:45:06.461-04:002011-05-25T08:45:06.461-04:00Why do you continue to seek the living among the d...Why do you continue to seek the living among the dead?<br /><br />Just asking.Frank Remkiewicz aka “Tree”https://www.blogger.com/profile/00501821790434895826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-66393299037982597212011-05-25T08:42:07.266-04:002011-05-25T08:42:07.266-04:00Just to clarify:
'Whole deal is off' or &...Just to clarify:<br /><br />'Whole deal is off' or 'deal is off so far as TEC is concerned'? Obviously for the major proportion of the Communion, the view of SE Asia is the accepted teaching of the church.<br /><br />FrederickAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-3190674222792426622011-05-25T01:37:24.508-04:002011-05-25T01:37:24.508-04:00Sorry, Mark, I am not as convinced as you that the...Sorry, Mark, I am not as convinced as you that the Anglican Communion News Service is competent to make the interpretation of what Ireland and South East Asia have done. And others agree with me. It is called “spin” and head offices are well-known for spin.<br /><br />Let’s put that to one side.<br /><br />I suggest that TEC accede to the Covenant with the same caveat you have quoted, merely altering (a) to<br /><br />(a) that those who accede to the Anglican Communion Covenant will unequivocally accept the full equality of all the baptised regardless of sex, race, sexual-orientation, marital status… you can get better wording than I can…<br /><br />drop (b) probably include (c) and obviously drop (d)<br /><br />Similarly the Anglican Church in Aotearoa, New Zealand and Polynesia would accede to the Covenant with the same caveats above and include our right to our three Tikanga structure. Remarriage after divorce, and women in all orders of ministry need to be there for both TEC and ACANZP, as already precedents departing from Scripture and Tradition, that any adopting rather than acceding with caveats could claw back.<br /><br />Blessings<br /><br />Boscoliturgyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11822769747947139669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10326675.post-62228099790489635832011-05-25T00:26:24.973-04:002011-05-25T00:26:24.973-04:00Sooo, if every adopting province does so with its ...Sooo, if every adopting province does so with its own conditions, I presume the original intent of agreeing to some uniformity has been defeated.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com