The Archbishop of Canada asked Presiding Bishop Venables of the Southern Cone not to come, but since Bishop Venables does not seem to mind grinding against the spirit of the Windsor Report, collegiality among the Primates and what all, he is going anyway.
While out there in Anglican land, Bishop Venables is going to visit the Diocese of Fort Worth, to, as the Diocesan website states, "The Diocese of Fort Worth is considering aligning with the Province of the Southern Cone, and this visit will help clarify the practicalities, benefits, and possible drawbacks of such a move." He will of course come at the Bishop's invitation. It is billed as a pastoral visit.
No one doubts what Bishop Iker and the leadership of the Diocese intend. They intend to promote the idea of "aligning with the Province of the Southern Cone," and if the required amendments to the Constitution and Canons of Forth Worth and related practical decision are made, to act on that idea. This is a warm up for the pitch.
4/22/2008
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Venables' response to Hiltz is that the people he is visiting in Vancouver are no longer members of the ACC.
ReplyDeleteI thought they needed to say they were the true remnant in order to lay claim to the property.
Did he misplay his hand?
and this visit will help clarify the practicalities, benefits, and possible drawbacks of such a move.
ReplyDeleteGee, what would Presiding Bishop Venables see as possible "drawbacks of such a move?" Learning español? Having to Tango during the offertory? Trying to find a prayer book in the Province of the Southern Cone?
Please illuminate me!
They can all load up the wagons and head for Buenos Aires for all I care.
ReplyDeleteMark - this is an off-topic request from a lurker, please could you enable either the whole post, or first 200 words, to come through on your RSS feed?! It makes it much easier to keep track of your writing.
ReplyDelete(Dashboard - Settings - Site Feed - Full (or short))
Thanks.
According to the "Anglican" Diocese of San Joaquin website, Venables is also making a stop in Fresno on April 29. Here's the link:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.sjoaquin.net/News/flyer.htm
Please rememmber that there are faithful Episcopalians in Fort Worth, just as there are in San Joaquin. My former parish of Trinity is one; All Saints is another. Both are in Fort Worth and have de-networked themselves. When Jack Iker came to Fort Worth he wanted All Saints to be his cathedral; after a short while they sent him packing. Marilyn
ReplyDeleteWow, between the planned grand theft in Fort Worth and the polygamist cults (actually, not that much difference between how Bp. Iker's support and the FLDS think of women now that I think of it) Texas lawyers should be planning for a banner year!
ReplyDeleteFWIW
jimB
Grinding against the "spirit of Windsor"?
ReplyDeleteThat's laughable. Anything Windsor-like was killed off with the impertinance of the Dioceses of Los Angeles, New Hampshire, and Washington.
Since there are no rules to Windsor that are consistently respected by revisionists, why should others respect Windsor for the sake of revisionists?
I can see where GC 2009 is going. The enlightened resolutions will be a shredding rip heard 'round the world, and by the U.S. courts. Such a split was already ruled as reality in court in Virginia and will be heard in dioceses around the country later in 2009. Look up the HOB/D listserv now to prepare thank-you letters to those who will cause it to happen. They will become infamous. They will be abominated by the rest of the Anglican world. Mark it.
I think Allen just abominated the English language (not to mention theology and history).
ReplyDeleteThank you for all you are doing to end the silence.
ReplyDeletedayofsilence.org
Allen, the issue is hypocrisy.
ReplyDeleteThe "conservatives" demand that everyone conform to Lambeth 1998 1.10 and to the Windsor report.
But they do not conform themselves.
That's hypocrisy.
Jesus, IIRC, wasn't particularly pro-hypocrisy.
I love Allen's spin, which takes selective memory to new lows. On the day the Windsor report issued, the bad liberals said they would work on the covenant, and began a process of apology. TEC and ACCAnada began steps to accede to the report by not attending the next Anglican Communion Council meeting. Archbishop Akinola announced the clause on border crossing clearly did not apply to holy people like, well, Archbishop Akinola. So now all the subsequent problems are the left wing's fault in the alternate universe according to Allen.
ReplyDeleteSad, really sad. Knowing what God would do if He had all the facts can lead one to some really odd places. Being willing to find out what God has in mind can get you beat up by the schismatics but I think is a better path.
FWIW
jimB
Allen:
ReplyDeleteAs, no doubt the federal Courts will remind the Judge in Virginia, the secular courts are not competent to judge a split. Also, the weird little law, passed by the Rebel government in the midst of treason, has no standing in anyplace other than the Commonwealth of Virginia.
Windsor was stillborn by the actions of +Akinola and the rest of the Donetist Arminians. Get a grip.
Frair John:
ReplyDeleteActually, to be fair to the judge, he refused to consider whether the law is constitutional yet. For legal reasons, that's the way its supposed to happen.
I won't be at all surprised if he finds the law unconstitutional, and I think that ruling will survive appeal.
Mark,
ReplyDeleteOne little nit-pick.
Fred Hiltz is Primate of Canada.
"Archbishop of Canada" would seems to refer to Bruce Stavert (+Quebec), who is Archbishop of the Ecclesiastical Province of Canada or Metropolitan of the Ecclesiastical Province of Canada.
The Canadian church is divided into 4 provinces, Canada, Ontario, Rupert's Land, and British Columbia and the Yukon, each of which has an archbishop.
Dr. Virtue is reporting that Abp Venables said in Canada:
ReplyDelete"I believe that the time comes when a marriage is no longer a marriage and you have to recognize it. With reference to the two positions in Anglicanism at present we are incompatible doctrinally and ethically and quite different in our presuppositions. Once we recognize that maybe we can have an amicable divide. This is separation from an apostate situation. Perhaps we can have an Anglican federation but even that seems unlikely at present," said Archbishop Gregory Venables, Primate of the Southern Cone. "But as in the case of a divorce we are in a conflict that does not bring us any joy."
In regard to Dr. Williams' ability to oppose his actions:
"The church has local authority, but no central authority," said Venables.
While some have had different experiences, I have found that when Dr. Virtue quotes he is generally very accurate. Paraphrases, not so much, but quotes tend to be correct.
So, would someone explain how this is honoring the (defunct in my view if not Dr. Williams' view) Windsor Report? After which we can discuss how this guy gets entrance to Lambeth while Bp. Robinson does not.
FWIW
jimB
1. Fred Hiltz's title is actually "Primate of the Anglican Church of Canada," although I preferred the former style of "Primate of All Canada."
ReplyDelete2. Presiding Bishop Venables seems to have been indicating that he has no intention of mingling with the impure at Lambeth.
I'll risk a snide question for the sake of discussion. How will this new branch of prayer-book people "brand" itself, as far as a church name?
ReplyDeleteHere in the U.S., they obviously just use "Anglican." It won't be so simple in Canada. What's the guess from my neighbors to the North?
Fr. Malcom,
ReplyDeleteAnd yet, Dr. Williams continues to treat him as a member. This must make sense to someone, it baffles me.
FWIW
jimB
Jim - to date, all Venables has done (apart from the odd ecclesiastical invasion) has been to hint he won't come to Rowan's party. Rowan is determined not to kick anyone out, it seems. He prefers that the schismatics leave on their own.
ReplyDeleteVirginia gal - the schismatics in Canada are calling themselves Anglican.