9/30/2008

Archbishop Akinola, Back Off.

Ever the political lion, etc, the Archbishop of Nigeria, Peter Akinola, has seen fit to make comments on the Western and US scene. As a primate with oversight of a proto-diocese in the United States, he speaks "from the chair" to the West. All part of ecclesial sausage making: he seems to think that if you package it right, you can put anything in it they will eat it. But not this time. This time the Archbishop has put poison in the grinder.

So here are some choice statements from the Archbishop's message to the 9th General Synod of the Church of Nigeria.

"As a Church we cannot but continue to decry the disturbing level of moral decadence and spiritual degradation eating deep into the soul of western societies. In the United Kingdom, all through Europe and in ever increasing number of States in America, Legislators make laws to upturn the natural order and throw God away from the public domain. Marriage and family life as we know them in the word of God have been jettisoned. People of the same sex are legally permitted to marry. Parents’ right to discipline their children is legally denied, the age of discretion that used to be 21 has been lowered 18 and there are efforts at reducing it to 16 if not 14. As if these are not bad enough, only last week the TELL magazine reported in its 36th edition on page 12 that a 27 year old man was arrested for having sex with a sheep in Dulwich, south east London."

There it is: the three strikes and out - Strike one, upturning the natural order, Strike two marriage and family life are jettisoned. Strike three, guy pokes sheep.

"More disturbing is that the first day of the week, Sunday, traditionally set aside for worship and rest is no longer free. Also, the right to proclaim the gospel of our Lord Jesus the Christ for the salvation of all is severely curtailed and in the name of multiculturalism fuelled by oil politics and economic consideration and benefits, other religious faiths and culture are promoted over and above Christianity. Hiding under the principle of “political correctness” Satan has misled many to deny the reality of sin and God’s final judgement. In sum, the western world is not only losing its Judaeo-Christian heritage from which it received its civilisation; it is fast becoming anti Christ and anti Church."

I know the Archbishop will find this shocking, but in at least part of the West we have replaced theocracies with democracy (sometimes only a pale version of it). As to the rest of this absurd paragraph the less said the better.

"We call on the remnant of the people of the biblical faith to wake up, be courageous, stand in the gap, proclaim the word faithfully and uncompromisingly in season and out season and reclaim these nations for Christ before it is too late. The Parousia may well be at hand."

Got it...the call for desperate action...the end is coming, the end is coming.

Specifically about the United States the Archbishop has the following to say:

"We salute those who emerged as presidential candidates of both the Republican and Democratic Parties. It was a rigorous, time and energy sapping exercise. But it was participatory as all stakeholders were openly involved in all parts of the vast country. As we wish them well in their electioneering we have our fears and reservations about the dangerous trends we see in American politics.

Ordinarily, it should be our joy that an African American is popularly nominated for the first time in American political history to slug it out with other contenders and going by popular forecasts, he is likely to be heading for the White House.
We should however be concerned that this is a politician considered to be a far leftwing liberal for whom all that counts is victory at the polls. He sees abortion as normal and a matter of right for those who do it. So life is not sacrosanct and man can terminate it at will.

By the same token homosexuality is okay and so under him, the world is likely to see more liberal and widespread acceptance of same sex marriages.

We urge Senator Obama to prayerfully reconsider some of his ultra
liberal dispositions not only for the sake of “God’s own Country” but in the interest of the world. His endorsement of what the scriptures and much of the world condemn will definitely deepen in America the religious and spiritual vacuum which ungodly influences will of course seek to fill by whatever means. And that will have grave consequences for him and his country.
As you know, whenever America sneezes, the rest of the world catches cold. In matters of religion, we plead; do not take today’s world for granted. A stitch in time saves nine."

The Archbishop is full of bromides (a stitch in time, etc), but under the guise of supposedly helpful commentary, he interjects threatening warnings, "We urge Senator Obama to prayerfully reconsider some of his ultra liberal dispositions...that will have grave consequences for him and his country."

What is remarkable is that the Archbishop of Nigeria has decided to chastise an American presidential candidate. Now to be fair, clergy of American congregations are given occasionally to telling their governors what to do, and the Archbishop of Nigeria is known to have done the same in Nigeria. But for the Archbishop to make public comments regarding one but not both of the candidates for election in the US Presidential election is very peculiar indeed.

He is meddling in US Politics at a very primary level, calling on one of the candidates to "reconsider some of his ultra liberal dispositions," that is to repent.

He can do what he damn well pleases, of course. Freedom ain't worth nothing but its free. Still, he might remember that a fairly large number of Americans do not particularly like foreign potentates telling them what to do, who to vote for, and we sure don't like them telling particular candidates of ours to repent.

Archbishop Akinola, back off.

69 comments:

  1. I suppose it would be way too much to hope that the Archbishop might prayerfully reconsider some of his ultra conservative dispositions not only for the sake of his own soul but in the interest of the world.

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  2. Oh dear, I don't think this one was run through Martyn Minn's typewriter. Or even David Anderson's. I am not sure the archbishop grasps that the more he says about the United States the easier me makes life for Americans who oppose him. We can stop painting him as a dangerous buffoon and simly hand him the paint brush.

    Baaaaa.

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  3. And stop sending me e-mails telling me I've won or inherited something!

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  4. Let him talk! It might be really interesting if the IRS takes on the folks of Falls Church, Truro Parish, or the parishes of San Joachin that continue in xJDS or perhaps, FtW. It might mean that all the arch-conservative assets might be tied up in tax court for years.

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  5. Archbishop Akinola:

    you must first clean your own house before you can expect to clean others. First, enter into a dialog with those rebels who have kidnapped and hold several hundred foreigners captive -- some for years -- and get the rebels to free those captives and send them home. Second, maske available to every perosn in Nigeria HIV/AIDS vaccines for both adults and children; 3, stop killing anyonethat doesn't agree with basic principles such as Moslems and the "dreded" LGBT Nigerians.
    you should work on that before you go "preaching" about what an American Presidential candidate should or should not do.

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  6. All of this self-grandiose despoticlike pontificating comes from a man who has difficulty facing the degradation/outcasting his LGBT fellow countrymen are subjected to by HIM! Of course the absurdity of the whole thing is the corruption, warring and daily thuggery his country is steeped in...the man is more than slightly disturbed. I wish he would preach this slop from the pulpit in Virginia...maybe we can have the IRS visit this outpost of self-righteous poached poachers.

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  7. I used to think that ++Abuja just didn't like homos. It felt a little personal. Now I can see that he doesn't like anybody in the US except the right wing of the Republican Party.

    It's nothing personal - he doesn't like any of us. I feel better.

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  8. A London newspaper with the unusual name of the "Hendon & Finchley, Barnet & Potters Bar, Edgware & Mill Hill Times" reports of the Dulwich sheep incident that the perpetrator was "a black man". [UK newspapers still think it's OK to print this sort of thing.]

    So might it not be a Nigerian custom introduced to the UK, Archbishop?

    http://www.times-series.co.uk/news/bizarre/2400742.BROMLEY__Man_held_over_alleged_sheep_sex/

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  9. um, the content of his comments may be bad.

    but are you really saying that church leaders in country X should never criticize civil rulers or candidates in country Y? really?! REALLY?! ludicrous.

    and as for "democracy"; i'm no fan.

    as for "theocracy", i am convinced that God is already in charge. we are, in fact, always and everywhere, in a theocracy.

    as for what you mean by "theocracy", let's call that "ecclesiocracy". i'm no fan of ecclesiocracy, but not because i think democracy is better. i don't. i think both are usurpations--or attempted usurpations--of theocracy.

    the problem with the Israelites when they wanted a king was not that they should have wanted a democratic assembly instead.

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  10. "as for "theocracy", i am convinced that God is already in charge. we are, in fact, always and everywhere, in a theocracy."

    With all due respect - malarkey! Nazi Germany, for example, was not an example of God running the show.

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  11. People make Lenten and Advent resolutions, I made a Pentecost resolution this year.

    I gave up fear for Pentecost.

    Presidential candidates, religious leaders, and newsmedia cannot make me afraid. The massive loss of wealth in the stock market and the minor loss of my comfortable home cannot make me afraid.

    In these weeks I have taken up the words of Jesus as reported by Julian of Norwich:

    All is well, and all is well, and all manner of things shall be made well.

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  12. I don't think he likes even the Republicans.

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  13. Oh my goodness. Can Akinola see Russia from his house, too?

    They sound about the same to me: scary and clueless.

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  14. Fred---it's a small (and sad) thing, but there are no vaccines for HIV yet.

    (You may have meant medications, but I am compelled to note the lack of a vaccine anyway.)

    Fr. Bushnell---let me see...as a woman, do I find democracy or a theocracy under militant Islamics "better"?

    Care to take a guess where I come down?

    Doxy

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  15. Let's face it. Democracy is ugly. It's not about heroes on white horses riding to the rescue, or about glorious philosopher kings showing us all The Way. It's about very ordinary imperfect people in committees trying to work out compromises between competing interests. They frequently come up with agreements that no one likes, but everyone can live with, and will vote for, however reluctantly. As Churchill once said, democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others. The historical record of glamorous heroes and philosopher kings is not very good; usually a cure that's much worse than the disease.
    Until Our Lord returns to the earth to run it all Himself, democracy is the best thing imperfect mortals blundering along through history have.

    From here on out, I will send Archbishop Akinola all the fraudulent emails I get from Nigeria.

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  16. Bob of Fremont30/9/08 9:14 PM

    And no one on here has ever offered any negative opinions on Bp. Akinola or his country. Oh, no.

    No doubt there was a Bp. Akinola or a St. Paul who tried to tell Rome, Galatia, and others that they were falling into decadence.

    Only a few were willing to listen then as well.

    Americans love to play pater to the third world, but boy do they hate it when the third world plays pater to them.

    May God Bless and keep Archbishop Akinola. He is a light in the darkness and he holds God's lamp onto our feet.

    Bob of Fremont

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  17. "More disturbing is that the first day of the week, Sunday, traditionally set aside for worship and rest is no longer free."

    Is he SERIOUS? There haven't been so-called "blue laws" in decades and never in my lifetime (40 years). Where has he been?

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  18. May God Bless and keep Archbishop Akinola . . . far away from us! (With apologies to Sholem Aleichem and "Fiddler on the Roof")

    He is a light

    Well, perhaps in the sense that Lucifer means "The Bright One", too.

    Lord have mercy!

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  19. Back off is an understatement.

    This is a man akin to Palin... he can see American... (on a map.. or?)

    He has no clue.

    I've really never given this uneducated, backwards, Anglican wanna-be, racist and sexist shill much credence, and never will.

    Bad me, name calling. I do have more.

    I've been around politicians long enough to know one when I see one, and measure a bad one.

    If he really thinks this will work in America, he is just SO wrong. It's really gotten pretty pathetic. The only nice thing I can say is that we regard the people of the African Continent as not being like him. Whew.

    He's a couple hundred years too late. Missed the boat. Down the drain. Flushed.

    Still wearing those clown shoes, though.

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  20. I am afraid what we are dealing with in Akinola is another Simon the Magician, as Philip encountered in Macedonia. He's using the church as his way of ascendancy, a self-promoting huckster not unlike the faith healers and televangelists we see.

    And, as we can see from a previous comment, there are those so enamored of the promise of guilt-free hatred, the revenge fantasy of a "Rapture" in which they'll pay us all back in blood and fire, that they'll ignore the fact they are Akinola's puppets.

    Meanwhile, I would advise his "champions" here in America that, when you move to Nigeria and live as the Nigerians do, feel free to disparage the decadence of the West -- however, while you are here and comfortably benefitting from the work, taxes and goodwill of gays, lesbians, liberals and others of every stripe, your protests ring of childish selfishness and hypocrisy.

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  21. just wondering1/10/08 3:42 AM

    why has TEC spent 5 years bending over backwards to stay in communion with this guy???

    the AC ain't kicking him out......and TEC gives in repeatedly eg BO33 in order to stay in the club with him - WHY???

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  22. counterlight gives the usual bumpy speech about democracy, but this christian here just doesn't buy it.

    basically it comes down to this: churchill was right. democracy is the worst form of government except for all the rest.

    the problem with the Israelites' asking for a king was not that it was the wrong form of government. it was that they were asking for any form of government at all.

    so yes, if democracy is the best we mere mortals can do, then perhaps it's time to stop thinking that we mere mortals should be running the show.

    democracy is the best answer to the question "who should decide when we point guns and who we point them at". i think we should get out of the habit of asking such questions in the first place.

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  23. He is a light in the darkness and he holds God's lamp onto our feet.

    More like Satan's torch!!

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  24. Of course Americans never interfere with the politics of other nations.

    You guys ought to hear what the rest of the world thinks of America. These comments are tame compared to what the French, Germans, and Russians say.

    Your greed and immorality has finally led to the chickens coming home to roost. Listen to those who call you to return to purity and holiness.

    Lord have mercy.

    QC

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  25. For Tom Sramek, Jr.

    Yep, Akinola needs to go. Soon.

    Like you I remember the "blue laws". While not entirely appropriate to our time, I can't help but to wonder what we lost and what we were supposed to find with a ceaseless, always available service and retail culture at our beck and call. Now young families just starting off have to "build in" sabbaths (of a sort) throughout the week, usually when no one else is available to sabbath with them. Note the split families having alternating/conflicting days off. Kids not seeing both parents on weekends (or weekdays) because of their having to work at Big Box Store, or at the local restaurant so that more affluent types can feast after church. Meanwhile the kids are at home being raised by Comcast, Direct TV, or worse. Yep, everybody gets their own weekday sabbath...to be mainly alone. Yeahhh! Wooo hooo!

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  26. Interesting use of words cany, "missed the boat."

    So you would have preferred he came over in shackles and chains as a slave 200 years ago and then he would appreciate your current point of view.

    Shockingly racist statements in your post.

    I hope it was accidental.

    Bob of Fremont

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  27. Bob of Fremont1/10/08 7:29 AM

    Interesting use of words cany, "missed the boat."

    So you would have preferred he came over in shackles and chains as a slave 200 years ago and then he would appreciate your point of view.

    Shockingly racist statements in your post.

    I hope it was accidental.

    Bob of Fremont

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  28. "so yes, if democracy is the best we mere mortals can do, then perhaps it's time to stop thinking that we mere mortals should be running the show."

    So that raises the question, who speaks for God on this earth? Who has the hot line to the Almighty to tell us what He decides on matters of policy (and not just big things like war and peace, but little things like bond issues for road repair)? There's never been any shortage of people claiming that role. Just ask Archbishop Akinola.

    "You guys ought to hear what the rest of the world thinks of America. These comments are tame compared to what the French, Germans, and Russians say."

    And indeed, now that we've squandered our inheritance and gambled our money away and we're pushing our empty cars to the poorhouse, who will take our place? Who will fill the big power vacuum that we are leaving behind as we join the French, the Germans, and the Russians in the club of former empires? Meet your new global hegemon, the Chinese. You might ask the Tibetans what life is like under their dominion.
    Believe me, you're going to miss us Yanks in the new Chinese century.

    "May God Bless and keep Archbishop Akinola. He is a light in the darkness and he holds God's lamp onto our feet."

    I second the comments of JCF and Just Wondering.

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  29. the problem with the Israelites' asking for a king was not that it was the wrong form of government. it was that they were asking for any form of government at all.

    Because Moses deciding who was to live and who was to die wasn't a form of government?

    No offense, Brother, but you are simply full of it.

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  30. So you would have preferred he came over in shackles and chains as a slave 200 years ago and then he would appreciate your current point of view.

    Aw, bob of fremont, just when I was going to congratulate you on your post on another thread that admitted that "your side" might be wrong.

    Don't you reasserters ever tire of trying to paint every criticism or unkind word written about ++Akinola et al as being evidence of some sort of crypto-racism? There's nothing remotely racist in saying that ++Akinola has "missed the boat". I'll go further: I think he's positively backwards. Does that mean I think that all Africans or African Americans are backwards? It does not.

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  31. "I've really never given this uneducated, backwards, Anglican wanna-be, racist and sexist shill much credence, and never will."

    I guess graduating from seminary with honors and then getting a Masters in Theological Studies (MTS) from VTS proves he is uneducated and backward. Methinks there is more than a touch of racism in some of his detractors!

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  32. Every time I see Abp. Akinola's writings, I am inevitably reminded of a definition by H.L. Mencken:

    "Archbishop: a Christian ecclesiastic of a rank superior to that attained by Christ."

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  33. Simon Sarmiento1/10/08 1:57 PM

    The claim by the Archbishop about the sheep is seriously in error.

    The incident did not occur in Dulwich. It occurred in Chislehurst.

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  34. dr.primrose1/10/08 2:45 PM

    Bob of Fremont accused cany, who used the words "missed the boat," of making "Shockingly racist statements in your post" because "you would have preferred he came over in shackles and chains as a slave 200 years ago."

    I wonder how far we can carry this game? Slaves were tied to "posts" and whipped. Does that mean that Bob of Fremont is making "Shockingly racists statements"?

    And then, I suppose, the paragraph above contains "Shockingly racists statements" because it uses the word "carry" when slaves were forced to "carry" huge bags of cotton in the hot summer sun.

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  35. I'm finding some of the comments astonishing.
    Of course democracy isn't a perfect system, but I'd rather live in the best of a bad lot than in the worst.

    While Nigerian gay people still seek and obtain asylum in the West because they have to fear for their lives in their own country I don't think I want to be lectured by ++Akinola on morals of all things.

    When the first stream of Westerners seeks and obtains asylum in Nigeria on humanitarian grounds I might reconsider.

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  36. qc, thanks so very much for your progressive and prophetic ministry-until you can somehow convince me, though, that the Canadians and Afghans dislike the US for the same reasons, I'll have to remain sceptical.

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  37. bob of fremont, Nigeria is the Sicily of Africa-dependent on foreign aid and emigrants sending home money, unpopular with its neighbors, one of the most unstable and violent places in the world, unable to feed what it breeds.
    If ever the phrase "Physician, heal thyself." had meaning, it has meaning for him.
    Like a man with lung cancer complaining that his neighbor's cough from flu is dangerous. No shame at all.

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  38. I have run into more than a few PhDs who are shockingly ill-educated, so nothing racist in that.

    "missed the boat" is a standard idiom. Nothing racist about that.

    What IS racist is bleating out "racist!" everytime someone disagrees with Akinola or calls him out on his language. That's an ugly form of reverse racism, much favored by conservatives.

    it is much of a piece with the attitude that telling Christianists that they can't legistlate their religious morality s somehow "anti-Christian".

    Similarly, I don't yell out "sexist!" everytime someone disagrees with me!

    IT

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  39. I guess graduating from seminary with honors and then getting a Masters in Theological Studies (MTS) from VTS proves he is uneducated and backward. Methinks there is more than a touch of racism in some of his detractors!

    Let us not forget that George W. Bush, who is white, holds degrees from both Yale and Harvard, yet no one would ever accuse him of being educated.

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  40. "So you would have preferred he came over in shackles and chains as a slave 200 years ago and then he would appreciate your point of view."

    No, but His Grace of Abuja would like very much to see me in shackles and chains, and in jail, so that I appreciate his point of view.
    And ++Akinola has said so, repeatedly and publicly, beginning with his active campaigning on behalf of a law that would criminalize even the discussion of same sexuality.

    I presume that Bob of Fremont endorses this form of state policy toward sexual minorities.

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  41. Sorry to disappoint you but the Canadians are no great fans. Thanks to George.

    Try walking around Afghanistan on your own, waving an American Flag and not wearing a bullet proof vest. How long do you think you would last?

    Your liberal culture they would consider totally depraved.

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  42. As much as I disagree with his comments on the US Presidential candidates, I do not question his right to express them. As citizens of the world's only super-power, the choice made by Americans in 5 weeks time will affect us all. When you declare the President to be the leader of the free world, then even though we don't get a vote, please do not deny the citizens of the free world a voice. We don't want Vice President Palin any more than you do...

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  43. Nom de Plume1/10/08 10:14 PM

    OK, I'll bite:

    His Archlordship is upset because "a 27 year old man was arrested for having sex with a sheep".

    I take it he would prefer the man were not arrested?

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  44. I'm not disappointed, but nonplussed; how would any country please both the Canadian left and the Taliban?
    This is not a rhetorical question. Obviously getting Layton and Bin Laden on the same page about anything would be difficult. Getting a nation of 300 million people to live up to both sets of expectations, many of which contradict each other-you've seen my problem.
    I am also aware that Red Tory/NDP disdain of the US predates W by at least 220 years. No hard feelings. I'm not a big fan of hereditary monarchy, myself, especially one with an official church tied to it.

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  45. Your greed and immorality has finally led to the chickens coming home to roost.

    Greed - like the grab for land that gave Germany the Sudetenland? Greed of the sort that brought about Germany's utter destitution - at the hands of France? Immorality like the abject subjugation of serfs in Russia that led to firing on a peaceful clergy-led demonstration of support for the "Divinely-Appointed" Tsar?

    Shall we go on to talk about England? Japan? Arabia? Rome, pre- or post-Christianity? Pick a place - even Tibet - and I can point to ugly history and ugly people in it.

    Nobody is any better than us. We're greedy and immoral, so is everyone else. That's why we are called to love one another. Beams/motes, kiddo.


    Listen to those who call you to return to purity and holiness.

    We have. That's why we can stand against the verbal and emotional violence of Akinola and his puppets here in America.

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  46. No one says that Americans don't comment on other nations - that is a red-herring (which is a polite way of saying a deliberately obstructive lie). What we are objecting to is that a man of such obvious defects, such obvious political ambition, should feel he has some divine mandate to pronounce judgment.
    He is not holy, pure or particularly orthodox.

    As for the hand-wringing over racism - which, frankly, I find spurious and manipulative - I will be much more impressed when I see you doing more than talking. Go, sell all you have, and give it to Akinola, then complain about our racism. Go live and work and help in Nigeria, Uganda, Kenya, then complain. Until then, you're just a sorehead using any excuse to derail real conversation.
    Stop playing games with us.
    BTW, if you are concerned about racism, here's a quote for you from a speech praising Akinola:
    Why did white people get involved in the gay issue?
    They are very funny people. They keep animals as pets. They kiss animals and carry them like humans. As for their human level, I don’t know what to say, but their Christian level is another thing. They are not good Christians. This is why they are re-evangelizing them. We have our ministers in Britain, America and all parts of the world who are re-evangelizing the white people.

    -Venerable Daniel Ilogu of Okrika Anglican Diocese, Rivers State

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  47. Re Chiselhurst, Simon, which is why I tracked down the newspaper report. Flocks of "available" sheep in Dulwich just didn't ring true.

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  48. Colin Coward2/10/08 3:46 AM

    Astonishing that Archbishop Akinola should have the time to research and read an article from a local paper from a Borough on the fringes of London. So we go from an alleged incident of sex with a sheep by a black man (no evidence of any sexual activity having actually occurred) to the Primate of All Nigeria referring to this incident in a Primatial letter as evidence of western decadence. And his comments prove to conservatives that All Nigeria is right and the west is totally corrupt and engaged in wicked practices. It does make it difficult to take him and all involved with him seriously (Bishop Martyn Minns especially).
    Revd Colin Coward
    Director of Changing Attitude England

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  49. Thank you for your clarification.

    No nation is perfect but I would like to thank you for the good stuff America has done and is doing.

    May God bless us all.

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  50. “That's why we are called to love one another.”

    When are you going to start to love “Akinola and his puppets”?

    Mote & beam?

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  51. It certainly does appear that so many here really do hate him, on so many levels. No, not just disagree with his theological views or his cultural context or his political outlook - but actually hate him. Personally.

    Golly.

    I wonder if the level of visceral bursting out here, which I find quite rather surprising on Mark's blog, reveals more about the distressed state of our own hearts and minds in this time of church crisis then any thing the Archbishop might say in the context of his own nation.

    It would be one thing, I suppose, if we knew the focus of our contempt or had been to the country of our collective disdain, but that seems to be unlikely.

    bb

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  52. Alan Harrison2/10/08 1:52 PM

    Lapinbizarre wrote:
    "A London newspaper with the unusual name of the "Hendon & Finchley, Barnet & Potters Bar, Edgware & Mill Hill Times" reports of the Dulwich sheep incident that the perpetrator was "a black man". [UK newspapers still think it's OK to print this sort of thing.]"

    Sorry, but I don't see the problem with this. The Times report is simply reporting what the witness saw and how he described the alleged culprit. If I walked down the street with +Rowan Williams and +Akinola, both in mufti, a passer-by might well describe us as two white blokes with beards and a black bloke. As it happens, I'm no fan of +Akinola and might have rude things to say about him, but to describe him or the sheep-shagger as black is merely a factual description, and indeed uses the term preferred by black people in Britain to describe them.

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  53. Which, if true, BB, would be unbelievably mean-spirited, seeing as how Akinola has never, ever tried to ram his own beliefs (if indeed they are his beliefs and not merely the means to an end) down anyone else's throat.

    "level of visceral bursting." Ever visit Stand Firm or, on a difficult day, T19?

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  54. "No, not just disagree with his theological views or his cultural context or his political outlook - but actually hate him. Personally."

    Perhaps only Our Lord could truly love those who would have Him arrested, imprisoned, and killed.
    I don't think the reason for the strong emotions Archbishop Akinola is very hard to figure out. To LGBT Christians and their friends,the Archbishop is a threat, and to LGBT Christians in his own country, a potentially mortal threat.

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  55. From an October 2nd WorldNetDaily release:

    "WND author and staff writer Jerome Corsi has arrived in the Kenyan capital to investigate Sen. Barack Obama's ties to the prime minister, Raila Odinga, who was appointed to the position to stop a wave of violence by Muslim supporters.

    "Corsi came at the invitation of Christian missionaries who contend the rise of Islam in the African nation has been spurred by an agreement Odinga signed with Muslim leaders in an effort to win the presidency last December. Odinga lost but now shares power with the Kenyan president to appease Islamic leaders."

    ".... at the invitation of Christian missionaries"?

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/?pageId=76769

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  56. Mark, I checked out the link, and it certainly APPEARS to lead to the official website of the Anglican Church of Nigeria, but I'm not yet convinced that this letter is not a forged parody by a writer of near Swiftian capabilities. I regret impugning your integrity in this manner,but an old lady's gotta do what she's gotta do.

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  57. “That's why we are called to love one another.”

    When are you going to start to love “Akinola and his puppets”?

    Mote & beam?


    It is not unloving to tell you you're being manipulated nor to disabuse Akinola and his puppets of his alleged "holiness," qc. One thing I agree with Reasserters on is this - just because you don't like hearing it, doesn't mean it's not truthful or compassionate.

    I am telling you the truth in love. It's tough love, but that's what you need. Liberals have been far too indulgent with you.

    When are you all going to engage reality and stop playing the "hurt little feelings" game? QC? BB? Anyone?

    ReplyDelete
  58. BB,

    How long did you live in Nigeria? When did you become a Nigerian national? I went to Boston for a whole week once . . . hooray! I'm John Adams.

    How long have you known me, personally, or most of the bloggers here? Yet you can divine "hate" while denying that we, reading Akinola's approved statements, cannot do the same.

    It is exactly that hypocrisy that has led to what you see as a knee-jerk dismissal of your position . . . we simply see no integrity there.

    Sorry.

    ReplyDelete
  59. MB

    It is unloving to say someone is being manipulated when that person is not being manipulated but simply has a different point of view.

    What evidence did you have to make the allegation of manipulation?

    ReplyDelete
  60. MB

    It is unloving to say someone is being manipulated when that person is not being manipulated but simply has a different point of view.


    Incorrect.

    You either do not understand love or are still playing the hurt feelings game.

    It may be incorrect, but it is an expression of great compassion to tell someone that they are being manipulated by ignorance and hate.

    What evidence did you have to make the allegation of manipulation?

    About as much as you do that homosexuality and liberal Christianity are destructive.

    You are not destroying anything but yourself, QC, and I'm trying to wake you up to that.

    ReplyDelete
  61. MB

    Please present your evidence to support your allegations.

    ReplyDelete
  62. Please present your evidence to support your allegations.

    Pay. Attention.

    What evidence did you have to make the allegation of manipulation?

    About as much as you do that homosexuality and liberal Christianity are destructive.


    In other words, simply my own conviction, which I present as fact just as you present as fact that Akinola is somehow trying to counteract a depraved liberal culture.

    If you don't like it, well, you know how we feel. Suck it up.

    ReplyDelete
  63. MB

    A person’s conviction does not count as evidence.

    For example, a person may strongly believe someone committed a crime but without evidence he cannot say that person committed the crime because the person may in fact be innocent.

    Try to think the best of those who disagree with you rather than the worse. It appears you have come to the conclusion that those who disagree with you should “just leave”. How liberal is that?

    Further when ad hominem remarks replace debate then the possibility of reconciliation recedes and it is a poor witness.

    ReplyDelete
  64. A person’s conviction does not count as evidence.

    As in the conviction that homosexuality is sinful and harmful and TEC apostate.

    Try to think the best of those who disagree with you rather than the worse.

    Double standard. TEC can be used as a whipping boy and apostate, abused and reviled, but we're to "think the best" of those doing so.

    How, by the way, other than your "conviction," do you know precisely what I think of these people?

    It appears you have come to the conclusion that those who disagree with you should “just leave”.

    Bingo! Notice the use of "you" - not TEC, but "you" - it's an opinion. I think it the best and healthiest for all involved.


    How liberal is that?

    As opposed to excommunication or refusing them the name Christian, pretty liberal.

    You make the mistake, however, of thinking that liberal on one issue means liberal all around.

    All you said is "Treat Reasserters with respect, while they have no respect for you."

    Why should we take you seriously?

    ReplyDelete
  65. “Double standard. TEC can be used as a whipping boy and apostate, abused and reviled, but we're to "think the best" of those doing so.”

    They are your brothers and sisters in Christ. Bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.

    How, by the way, other than your "conviction," do you know precisely what I think of these people?

    From what you have stated on this and other similar threads.

    BTW I have never alleged that TEC is apostate. What I fear is that it has acted unwisely and now will be forever at war. Sadly,we know that a house divided will not stand

    ReplyDelete
  66. Double standard. TEC can be used as a whipping boy and apostate, abused and reviled, but we're to "think the best" of those doing so.”

    They are your brothers and sisters in Christ. Bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.


    Then they should act like brothers and sisters. I am not perfect, nor have I claimed to be.

    If you had as much insight as you pretend, you would realize you have no way of knowing whom I bless or pray for.

    Another double standard: You read my intentions, but I am disallowed from reading others.

    How, by the way, other than your "conviction," do you know precisely what I think of these people?

    From what you have stated on this and other similar threads.


    Nope. You have your interpretation of what I've written.

    See above concerning this double standard you engage in.

    BTW I have never alleged that TEC is apostate. What I fear is that it has acted unwisely . . .

    Many have acted in a way seen as unwise: Francis, Paul, Peter, Jesus.


    . . and now will be forever at war.

    TEC's stopped being at war, already. If others wish to yell and snipe from outside TEC, that's their own soul's lookout.

    Sadly,we know that a house divided will not stand

    True. Unless it becomes two houses - The Episcopal Church and . . . whatever Reasserters are.

    Now, if you mean there can't be any division in THE CHURCH as encompassing the Whole Body of Christ, well, then, I'm afraid that house collapsed long ago.

    I don't recognize one brand name of church as THE CHURCH - whether Baptist, Episcopal, Orthodox, whatever. Others are welcome to, and they are the only ones who lose out in such and interpretation. The Reasserters/"orthodox"/Anglican - whatever they choose to call themselves - are quite welcome to make their own church, and God grant them Peace, but I, and most of the rest of us, will not turn our backs on our deepest convictions - which really have little to do with sexuality, as such - and will not purposefully do harm to our own bodies and souls, or those of others, to pacify others who can, quite reasonably, take another ecclesial route.

    ReplyDelete
  67. “TEC's stopped being at war, already.”

    When precisely did this war stop?

    ReplyDelete
  68. When precisely did this war stop?

    Out of all I wrote, that's what you got? It indicates a good deal about you.

    It stopped as soon as we stopped fussing ourselves over whether to depose the schismatic bishops. It stopped when we stopped trying to hold a family that cannot live together under one roof.

    The rest is lawyers.

    The only war is in the mind of Reasserters, and they lost already because we refused to bow down to them.

    ReplyDelete
  69. Next to a battle lost, the greatest misery is a battle won.

    There are many victories worse than a defeat.

    Enjoy the spoils if you can.

    I feel so sorry for you.

    ReplyDelete

OK... Comments, gripes, etc welcomed, but with comment moderation but with some cautions and one rule:
Cautions: Calling people fools, idiots, etc, will be reason to bounce your comment. Keeping in mind that in the struggles it is difficult enough to try to respect opponents, we should at least try.
Rule: PLEASE DO NOT SIGN OFF AS ANONYMOUS: BEGIN OR END THE MESSAGE WITH A NAME - ANY NAME. ANONYMOUS commentary will be cut.