So, let's get it straight...the Episcopal Church is here to stay.

It has taken a while to get the message out. But it is out. No matter that the Bishops of San Joaquin, Pittsburgh, Fort Worth and Quincy determine to leave the Episcopal Church, through whose ecclesial community they hold orders. No matter that there are clergy and laity who will go with them. There will indeed be EPISCOPAL CHURCH dioceses of San Joaquin, Pittsburgh, Fort Worth and Quincy beyond the time of their leaving.

They will perhaps be smaller, they will have new bishops and will find ways to reorder the church life and structures of those who remain part of the Episcopal Church. They will continue to contain a wide spectrum of opinion and hopes for the Episcopal Church, but they will be together.

Lionel Deimel has posted one example of the work that is going on in Pittsburgh to a continuing Diocese of Pittsburgh. It is a conference on "A Hopeful Future for the Episcopal Diocese of Pittsburgh: An Alternative Solution."

The various groups and individuals involved in this effort do not all agree with one another about what they hope for in the Episcopal Church, but they are agreed to work on their issues within the Episcopal Church. There is no guarantee that there will not be continued difference of opinion, indeed it would be odd if that were not true. The Episcopal Church is able to pray together but not always able to agree with one another.

We know that this is a difficult way to go, but there it is. So there will continue to be a Diocese of Pittsburgh, Fort Worth, and Quincy. People across the aisle, or better across the spectrum, will continue to be The Episcopal Church.

There it is.


  1. Yup. There it is, and always has been. Thanks for just laying it out there clearly, Mark.

  2. ...Here to stay.

    Great news for those of us who have been trying to keep our churches from flying apart.

    ...until the next impetuous action of some out-of-control bishop, some nonsensical statement is made, or another TEC autocrat brushes off objections by painting reasserters as ill-guided and bent on chaining gays to the gates of hell in punishment.

    ...here to stay, yes... but is it here to survive? Diocesan stats tell that story without fluff or spin. We need repentance evangelism, sound Trinitarian/justification teaching, and guidance to do acts of mercy in the name of Christ (unashamedly in HIS name - not in the name of the UN or the MDGs.) Anybody remember the 20/20 Vision, or was that too personal and pushy? Can't be any pushier than the heaps that we're having to swallow about SSBs.

    God doesn't bless what He is not a part of.

  3. On the issue of staying and leaving. I have been for some time following the orthodox blogs. There are those who adopt the "inside" strategy and those who adopt the "outside" My thinking on this is the king's loyal opposition versus sedition and treason in the secular realm. Recently, on the blog Stand Firm, Fr. David Handy on the diocese of Albany made clear that he has been working as an interim in an AMiA church for some time and in part-time venues for sometime. He adopted the "outside" strategy sometime (10 years) ago and has been working hard for it. He was very clear that his sole reason for remaining nominally in TEC was financial, his pension.

    Sometime ago, I tracked on +David Anderson and his changes in canonical residence, moving to either Quincy or Springfield, residing there for 6 months before transferring (presumably with letters dimissory) to CANA. Such letters seeming to be at the discretion of the ordinary of canonical residence...and bishops favorable to the issuance of such letters as a pass-through device. I am curious and would like to know if the Executive Council has addressed such issues or is planning to address them? EmilyH

  4. Allen, where in this cosmos that God created is God not present? Where is God's blessing inaccessible for those who love Jesus?

  5. "The next impetuous action of some out-of-control bishop" who makes "nonsensical statement[s]" - like, say, the bishop of...Pittsburgh? or Ft. Worth? or Quincy? or (formerly) San Juaquin (or however you spell it)? Allen, Allen, Allen. You just can't leave it alone, can you? Just can't hold to your word and bid farewell. Can't refrain from utterly distorting what the The Rt. Rev. Dr. Kathine Jefforts Schori, Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church (which is here to stay), has actually said: e.g. preaching a gospel of MDGs (no, we preach the good news of God in Christ, which compels us to embrace the MDGs as a matter of being good stewards of the abundant resources with which God has blessed us in order to care for the least of these).

    Your lack of integrity in keeping your word, the spirit of bitterness that you nurture by your incessant sniping, and your willful, intentional distortion of another's Godly position (in a word, a lie), dishonors the God you claim to worship and only reveals the self that you proclaim.

    God is not a part of (and so does not bless) what you are presenting of yourself in these little comment boxes, Allen. Pray for your own repentance first, my brother, so that God may bless the fruits of your labor, 'cause right now your fruits are rotting on the vine.

  6. Allen, if you are really exercised about the MDGs (although why one would be opposed to them is beyond me), you'd do better to lay the blame at the feet of +++Cantaur, since I believe the impetus for making them a focus of the members of the Anglican Communion came from him, and not PECUSA.

  7. Allen,

    You have all those things in several declining denominations. One of them, Rome, is led by a man who has said he expects to leave a smaller less inclusive church. The problem is not TEC's teaching. Your favorite things are important to you, but not to the society.

    We could push the (err...) stuff you want taught. It would not change the demographics much. The reason some of the churches that have reconstituted themselves outside TEC have seen growth is not the success of their message, it is the tenancy to collect the dissatisfied from loyal parishes. There is only so much growth there.


  8. Allen, you seem to have a very limited view of God. God is all knowing and all powerful. God is a part of everything. How could God NOT be part of the Episcopal Church.

    Your last comment strikes me as heretical

  9. Good catch, Holly. Yet another heresy from the pretendy-orthodox.

    BTW, Allen, which of these are you actually opposed to?

    Goal 1: Eradicate extreme poverty and hunger
    Goal 2: Achieve universal primary education
    Goal 3: Promote gender equality and empower women
    Goal 4: Reduce child mortality
    Goal 5: Improve maternal health
    Goal 6: Combat HIV/AIDS, malaria and other diseases
    Goal 7: Ensure environmental sustainability
    Goal 8: Develop a Global Partnership for Development


OK... Comments, gripes, etc welcomed, but with comment moderation but with some cautions and one rule:
Cautions: Calling people fools, idiots, etc, will be reason to bounce your comment. Keeping in mind that in the struggles it is difficult enough to try to respect opponents, we should at least try.